Sep 18, 2003 16:37
21 yrs ago
English term
"restrucuturing" under the tutelage
English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
The rest is simply regime change, "restructuring" the PA's seurity forces under American and Arab tutelage.
Does it mean:
restructuring them so that they go under American or Arab tutelage
or
restructuring them and doing so under the protection of America and Arab conutries
the inverted commas are in the original text
Thank you very much
Does it mean:
restructuring them so that they go under American or Arab tutelage
or
restructuring them and doing so under the protection of America and Arab conutries
the inverted commas are in the original text
Thank you very much
Responses
| 4 +6 | under the patronage of |
Alaa Zeineldine
|
| 5 +2 | under the tuition or instruction |
David Moore (X)
|
| 5 +1 | The first choice is more likely |
Fuad Yahya
|
| 4 +2 | the second |
Özden Arıkan
|
Change log
Apr 18, 2005 03:44: Özden Arıkan changed "Field" from "Other" to "Social Sciences" , "Field (specific)" from "(none)" to "Government / Politics"
Responses
+6
38 mins
Alaa Zeineldine
Egypt
Egypt
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
Egypt
The best in IT ... and in Automotive
Native in: Arabic 
, English
Works in: English to Arabic, Arabic to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
English term (edited):
under the tutelage
Selected
under the patronage of
i.e.: restructuring them according to American and Arab dictates.
I admit that this interpretation is based on reading the text in light of the political climate in the West Bank and Gaza and an assumption that the context is about US policy planning, perhaps related to the Midde-East Roadmap.
In that light the sentence suggests that American and Arab parties should direct the restructuring of the PA's security forces to ensure that the resulting structure and operations are compatible with the desired policy objectives and are not influenced by the PA's own leadership objectives and power struggles.
Hope this helps.
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Note added at 48 mins (2003-09-18 17:26:07 GMT)
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What I did not do is identify whether or not they would go under American and Arab tutelage in the end.
I believe that this ambiguity is intended and must not be removed. Maybe it is something to be determined by the restructuring process, or perhaps the decision has been taken but withheld for political reasons. In any case, what is apparent is who will direct the restructuring not the direction it will take, and that is what the translation should also reflect.
I admit that this interpretation is based on reading the text in light of the political climate in the West Bank and Gaza and an assumption that the context is about US policy planning, perhaps related to the Midde-East Roadmap.
In that light the sentence suggests that American and Arab parties should direct the restructuring of the PA's security forces to ensure that the resulting structure and operations are compatible with the desired policy objectives and are not influenced by the PA's own leadership objectives and power struggles.
Hope this helps.
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Note added at 48 mins (2003-09-18 17:26:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
What I did not do is identify whether or not they would go under American and Arab tutelage in the end.
I believe that this ambiguity is intended and must not be removed. Maybe it is something to be determined by the restructuring process, or perhaps the decision has been taken but withheld for political reasons. In any case, what is apparent is who will direct the restructuring not the direction it will take, and that is what the translation should also reflect.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much to all the people that replied to me. You've all been very helpful."
+1
2 mins
The first choice is more likely
Although that will depend on what the expression "the rest" refers to and what else the essay says.
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Note added at 2003-09-18 17:05:36 (GMT)
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The idea is that the PA\'s security forces are to be restructured so that they would come under a greater measure of control by the US and client Arab states. The PA itself is already under such tutelage and has always been, but that tutelage has been kept somewhat masked (not very successfully) to lend a modicum of legitimacy to the PA. The security forces, however, have not been kept in line to the satisfaction of the US and Arab states that desire to exercise overlordship, so the thinking now is to remove any cloak of PA independence and place the security forces themselves under a more naked form of US and Arab suzerainty. That is the idea.
Is the restructuring itself to done under US and Arab tutelage as well. That goes without saying.
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Note added at 2003-09-18 17:05:36 (GMT)
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The idea is that the PA\'s security forces are to be restructured so that they would come under a greater measure of control by the US and client Arab states. The PA itself is already under such tutelage and has always been, but that tutelage has been kept somewhat masked (not very successfully) to lend a modicum of legitimacy to the PA. The security forces, however, have not been kept in line to the satisfaction of the US and Arab states that desire to exercise overlordship, so the thinking now is to remove any cloak of PA independence and place the security forces themselves under a more naked form of US and Arab suzerainty. That is the idea.
Is the restructuring itself to done under US and Arab tutelage as well. That goes without saying.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
DGK T-I
7 mins
|
| disagree |
David Moore (X)
: Well, there's a first time for everything, and I think this the first time I've had to do this to you, Fuad....
9 mins
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David, please don't feel bad about that. You are a valued friend and colleague.
|
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| agree |
Refugio
: In my opinion, you are right. In this case, tutelage is a sort of Newspeak euphemism for control.
3 hrs
|
+2
7 mins
under the tuition or instruction
....that's all "tutelage" means
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Note added at 2003-09-18 16:47:20 (GMT)
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So how they are being \"restructured\", we are left to guess...well, we\'re not being told, anyway.
And the definition of \"tutelage\" is to be found in Chambers 21st. Century dictionary, among others.
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Note added at 2003-09-18 17:02:21 (GMT)
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It doesn\'t mean either of the alternatives offered; it is quite straightforward, it means just what is shown above.
It cannot mean
\"restructuring them so that they go under American or Arab tutelage\", because it is American and Arab tutelage which is being used to restructure them, and
it cannot mean
\"restructuring them and doing so under the protection of American and Arab countries\", unless you wish to define \"protect\" as \"teach\". I don\'t think many dictionaries would agree.....
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Note added at 2003-09-18 16:47:20 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
So how they are being \"restructured\", we are left to guess...well, we\'re not being told, anyway.
And the definition of \"tutelage\" is to be found in Chambers 21st. Century dictionary, among others.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-09-18 17:02:21 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It doesn\'t mean either of the alternatives offered; it is quite straightforward, it means just what is shown above.
It cannot mean
\"restructuring them so that they go under American or Arab tutelage\", because it is American and Arab tutelage which is being used to restructure them, and
it cannot mean
\"restructuring them and doing so under the protection of American and Arab countries\", unless you wish to define \"protect\" as \"teach\". I don\'t think many dictionaries would agree.....
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
DGK T-I
: I was assuming that in 'so they go under' "they" is the PA security forces (that's what I mean by my agree with Fuad anyway,although I think the quote & the two choices given are a bit ambiguous). I would go for David's interpretation
3 mins
|
| agree |
John Bowden
21 mins
|
+2
12 mins
Özden Arıkan
Germany
Germany
Specializes in field
Germany
I talk Turkey... and so will you!
Native in: Turkish
Works in: English to Turkish, Turkish to English, German to Turkish, and 1 more.
the second
seems to be more likely to me, that is:
the task of restructuring is to be done under american or arabian tutelage
the task of restructuring is to be done under american or arabian tutelage
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Clauwolf
: smart X!
10 mins
|
|
thanks, but it's not an X, it's a dancing chromosome ;-)
|
|
| agree |
DGK T-I
: restructure PAsec.forces with American & Arab tutelage.It is true that tutelege can be a literal term(help in learning to do something well)or with overtones(Oh,your under the tutelege of them,not grown up)David's def.tutelage though,so neither sentence?
11 mins
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i haven't given much thought to the intent and content of "tutelage" honestly, maybe it's a latter-day rendering of protectorate
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