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défreination hypophysaire
May 23, 2012 10:55
12 yrs ago
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French term

Facturation au succès de la mission

French to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general) HR
Bonjour,

Dans le cadre d'un contrat entre une agence de recrutement et une société cliente : "la facturation se fera au succès de la mission de recrutement, le jour de la prise de poste".

Je comprends la signification mais je me demandais s'il existant un terme exact équivalent en anglais ?

Merci d'avance
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 the invoice will be raised on the candidate start date
3 +2 the client will be billed when candidate has been successfully recruited
4 +1 success fee
4 billing upon successful recruitment process
5 -1 the success fee will become due on the first day the recruited candidate takes office
3 invoice shall be sent at the end of the recruitment process
3 invoice to be submitted on work commencement (of the successful applicant)
Change log

May 23, 2012 11:41: writeaway changed "Field" from "Other" to "Bus/Financial" , "Field (specific)" from "Human Resources" to "Business/Commerce (general)" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "HR"

Discussion

RedacOnline (asker) May 24, 2012:
ok, thanks for the detailed explanation Tony!
Tony M May 24, 2012:
shall Hello Redac!

No, it is not totally wrong, but there is a distinction.

In the 3rd person, the future tense in EN is "s/he/it will do" — and the use of the future tense in FR rather indicates that is what is required here.

However, in certain types of documents, 'shall' is used in a (not specifically future but) 'prescriptive' fashion to describe something that must be done. In this kind of contract, specification etc., this often translates the FR present tense (which can otherwise sometimes sound odd in EN!)

However, in the present case, the prescriptive usage is inappropriate — not only because we are translating simple future in FR, but also because it wouldn't make sense in this situation. Here are a few examples that may help:

"I shall go swimming on Friday" (future tense, 1st person)
"Jane will come with me" (future tense, 3rd person)
"All bolts shall be painted red unless otherwise directed" (prescriptive use — the requirement is that they must be painted red)
"The post-holder shall ensure that outgoing mail is taken to the Post Room before 4 o'c" (prescriptive)
"Incoming mail will arrive not later than 10 o'c" (a simple statement of future a fact)
RedacOnline (asker) May 24, 2012:
I have a question for Tony about the use of "shall' being wrong in the 3rd person. I have often seen "shall" used in agreements in the 3rd person, is that totally wrong?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 23, 2012:
I'd be tempted to turn it round and go with something along the lines of :

"successful recruitment missions will be invoiced the day the applicant starts the job"
veratek May 23, 2012:
invoice issued - definitely used in the US as well.
Di Penney May 23, 2012:
It's certainly used in the UK. I don't know about the US but maybe 'issued' or 'created' would fit the bill (no pun intended...)
veratek May 23, 2012:
Not that I translate much to do with "invoices," but I've never seen "invoice raised" in the US. Possibly Brit. English?

Proposed translations

+5
28 mins
Selected

the invoice will be raised on the candidate start date

or alternatively 'the invoice will be raised when the candidate starts in post'
Reference:

http://www.ash-associates.com/terms_of_business.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Sheila Wilson
16 mins
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Clear, succint and unambiguous. (No need to worry about "success" etc on this suggestion as it accounts for the fact that a candidate who starts has obviously succeeded). "Applicant" instead of "candidate"?
43 mins
agree Tony M : '...as soon as the applicant is in post'
1 hr
neutral Daryo : the end result maybe the same, but the stress is on "au succès de la mission" -- as opposed to -- the agency getting paid for just trying, but maybe not succeeding. This clause is firstly about whether the agency will be paid at all.
1 hr
agree S Kelly
3 hrs
agree lusinha
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks!"
+2
20 mins

the client will be billed when candidate has been successfully recruited

I rewrote it as in the text: "la facturation se fera au succès de la mission de recrutement"

REMINGTON OIL & GAS CORP - Proxy Statement (definitive) (DEF ...
sec.edgar-online.com/remington-oil-gas-corp/.../section10.aspx
24 Apr 2001 – ... Associates usually depends, at least in part, on the initial level of compensation we offer to the candidate successfully recruited by us through ...
[PDF]
Matthew C. Gratton, MD, FACEP - University of Missouri-Kansas City
kc-med-web.umkc.edu/em/faculty/CVs/GrattonCV.pdf

1991. UMKC SCHOOL OF. MEDICINE: Community and Family Medicine Search Committee. (Candidate successfully recruited, start date August 2010). Chair .
Note from asker:
Thanks!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : If a candidate is recruited, it is successful, so "successfully" is not necessary.//I know this sort of construction appears on the web, but many such examples could be described as examples of a tautology.
49 mins
google "successful recruitment" and you will see that you are wrong. "successful" is not entirely necessary, but it emphasizes the kind of result.
agree laenai : *the* candidate IMHO but otherwise agree :)
1 hr
Thank you.
neutral Daryo : not precise enough - "the candidate has been successfully recruited" may simply mean that the candidate accepted the post. This client wants to be sure the candidate ALSO turns up at work before paying!
1 hr
Wrong because "le jour de la prise de poste" was not part of the term being asked. It was in the text, so it was not required as part of the answer.
agree Catherine Earle
3 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
14 mins

invoice shall be sent at the end of the recruitment process

the day the person starts working

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 mins (2012-05-23 11:18:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

invoice sent at the end of the hire process, the day the person takes up the job
L'idée de "succès" ressort dans la 2e partie de la phrase
Note from asker:
Thanks!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I wouldn't disagree with your overall suggestion, but do note that 'shall' would be wrong here; in the 3rd person, it needs to be 'will'
1 hr
Something went wrong...
53 mins

billing upon successful recruitment process

La facturation ne se fera que si le recrutement est finalisé ( c'est à dire prise de poste du salarié).
Note from asker:
Thanks!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Sounds a bit awkward to me; 'billing upon...' sort of invites 'completion of...', I'm not sure you can real 'bill upon a process'???
59 mins
maybe you are right upon isn't appropriate what I meant was once the recruitment procedure was successfully completed
Something went wrong...
1 hr

invoice to be submitted on work commencement (of the successful applicant)

-
Note from asker:
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

the success fee will become due on the first day the recruited candidate takes office


"la facturation se fera au succès de la mission de recrutement, le jour de la prise de poste"

"the success fee will become due on the first day the recruited candidate takes office"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day10 hrs (2012-05-24 21:43:04 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I agree that "takes office" is a serious narrowing down, but FAR from being unlikely.

Anyway, as Cyril B. pointed out, that wasn't part of the question.

Change it to

the success fee will become due on the first day the recruited candidate takes his post"

if you want to stick entirely closely to the source text.

(although a politician can also take his post)

I done a bit of digging that confirmed my hunch: this kind of contracts where the agency gets paid ONLY if the selected candidate effectively “start assuming his duties” is usual when recruiting highly specialised or high-ranking individuals, not for recruiting 50 drivers.
More likely a boutique outfit of head-hunters than your run-of-mill temp agency.
A sizeable proportion of recruited candidates would be “company officers” i.e. directors in UK or “company officials” CEO and other C-level in US. I remember also very well several cases where non-elected officials were head-hunted. All these people would “take office”?

“Publicly and privately held for-profit corporations confer corporate titles or business titles on --company officials -- as a means of identifying their function in the organization.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_title)
Note from asker:
Thanks!
Peer comment(s):
neutral veratek : In the US, people don't take office for a job.// Obviously, I was referring to a company setting, which is the case here. No, people don't "take office" in this context, not some, and not a few.
1 hr
some / few do
disagree Tony M : Overtranslation: even if it is invoiced that day, it doesn't necessarily 'become due'; as V/T says, we don't say 'takes office' for an ordinary employee, not even in the UK! / Only people who hold a public office (mayors, politicians etc.) 'take office'.
2 hrs
this kind of "recruitment contract" is unlikely to be for "an ordinary employee". Anyway, how would you say that a "planning officer" at the local council started assuming his duties? Or the head of a quango? Or the chief executive of a local authority?
agree Cyril B. : This works well, except for 'takes office' which was not part of the question anyway. 'becomes due on the first day...' indeed is implied here so it's correct.
4 hrs
disagree writeaway : politicians take office. ordinary people start work .......
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
18 mins

success fee

C'est le terme EN.

http://shortlistrecruitment.com.au/recruitment-shortlisting-...

http://www.naomibennett.co.uk/recruitment.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2012-05-25 06:54:11 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

'facturation' means more than just issuing an invoice: it means the way a service is *charged and invoiced*.
Correct translation of the full sentence would have been something like "The service is charged as a success fee to be billed on the candidate's effective start date".
I know it is a long one, but one has to be precise when translating contracts :)
Note from asker:
thanks!
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : it may be referred to by some as a success fee but this hardly translates the entire phrase. Asker needs the entire thing en anglais /I stand by my comment
32 mins
It's the term *commonly* used in the industry, and it translates 'Facturation au succès de la mission' pretty well.
agree Daryo : the success fee will become due on the first day the candidate takes office
1 hr
Thank you Daryo
neutral Tony M : Agree with W/A: this is what is invoiced, OK, but doesn't translate the actual source expression. / Then that's what you ought to have posted ;-)
1 day 19 hrs
I stand by my translation :) See note added / That's not what was asked :)
Something went wrong...
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