Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Portuguese term or phrase:
Não peças a quem pediu, e não sirvas a quem serviu.
English translation:
Don't beg of a former beggar and don't serve a former servant.
Added to glossary by
Henrique Magalhaes
Jul 4, 2003 16:17
21 yrs ago
Portuguese term
Traduttore...ma non traditore!
Native in: Portuguese
Works in: English to Portuguese, French to Portuguese, Italian to Portuguese, and 4 more.
Não peças a quem pediu, nem sirvas a quem serviu.
Non-PRO
Portuguese to English
Other
This saying is just good common sense about people...to whom we are about asking or serving.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
5 hrs
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
Native in Portuguese
&
English
Benchmark Translations
Native in: Portuguese 
, English
Works in: Portuguese, English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
421
Selected
Neither beg of him who has been a begger, nor serve him who has been a servant.
Peguin Dictionary of Proverbs again :)
It is very much like one of the answers proposed above... if you prefer a shorter phrase...but if you use the one above, I really think you must make it:
"Don't beg of a former beggar nor serve a former servant"
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Note added at 2003-07-05 09:46:07 (GMT)
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Note to Sergey who commented on my comment on the meaning of \"plead\".
I am sorry to have to disagee with you again.
plead
v 1: appeal or request earnestly; \"I pleaded with him to stop\"
2: offer as an excuse or plea; \"She was pleading insanity\"
3: enter a plea, as in courts of law; \"She pleaded not guilty\"
4: make an allegation in an action or other legal proceeding,
esp. answer the previous pleading of the other party by
denying facts therein stated or by alleging new facts
These are the meanings of \'to plead\' and it can be a synonym of \"to beg\", but it can never mean \'to beg for money\' (as beggers do) and that is the meaning it has in the above sentence. I am absolutely sure of this.
It is very much like one of the answers proposed above... if you prefer a shorter phrase...but if you use the one above, I really think you must make it:
"Don't beg of a former beggar nor serve a former servant"
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Note added at 2003-07-05 09:46:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note to Sergey who commented on my comment on the meaning of \"plead\".
I am sorry to have to disagee with you again.
plead
v 1: appeal or request earnestly; \"I pleaded with him to stop\"
2: offer as an excuse or plea; \"She was pleading insanity\"
3: enter a plea, as in courts of law; \"She pleaded not guilty\"
4: make an allegation in an action or other legal proceeding,
esp. answer the previous pleading of the other party by
denying facts therein stated or by alleging new facts
These are the meanings of \'to plead\' and it can be a synonym of \"to beg\", but it can never mean \'to beg for money\' (as beggers do) and that is the meaning it has in the above sentence. I am absolutely sure of this.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I rather chose 'Don't beg of a former beggar and don't serve a former servant.'It is shorter and has more impact.Thanks Paula. "
-1
2 mins
Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
US Court Cert. 1980 Ph.D. 1981
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
3474
Don't ask whom you asked, or serve who you werved.
literal translation
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ricardo Fonseca
3 hrs
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| disagree |
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
: I sorry, but I think the above is not correct. 'pedir' has two meanings in Portuguese, to beg or to ask. In this case it is to 'to beg'
5 hrs
|
| disagree |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
: your grammar is off:a quem pediu is litgerally: of whom who has asked, NOT the one who asked something of or begged something of
23 hrs
|
47 mins
Carlos Monteiro
Portugal
Portugal
Native in Portuguese
Portugal
I will try to help you ...!!!
Native in: Portuguese
Works in: English to Portuguese, French to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
18
don't beg to whom have been a begger and don't serve to whom have been a servant
literalmente e julgo que sem perder o verdadeiro sentido
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ricardo Fonseca
: has been?
3 hrs
|
|
you're right
|
|
| disagree |
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
: This sentence can't be translated literally.
5 hrs
|
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Why not ???
|
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| neutral |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
: right meaning but grammar is off: to beg FROM; HAS been NOT have; and you can't say serve TO WHOM
22 hrs
|
|
Sorry Jane!! you're right!!
|
+1
2 hrs
silviafont
Punctual and to the point
Native in: Spanish
Works in: French to Spanish, German to Spanish, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Don't beg to a former beggar nor serve to a former servant
This means people are sure to retain resentment for their previous underprivileged position. A former beggar will hold no mercy for others and a former servant won't be a good master.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Ricardo Fonseca
1 hr
|
| disagree |
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
: I mean, the phrase is not bad but it most definitely "Don't beg Of a former beggar nor serve A former servant"
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Patricia Baldwin
: I agree with Ricardo
7 hrs
|
| neutral |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
: no BEG TO, it's BEG FROM and you can't serve TO
20 hrs
|
-1
4 hrs
Сергей Лузан
Russian Federation
Russian Federation
Russian Federation
Always welcome! :)
Native in: Russian
Works in: German to Russian, English to Russian, Spanish to Russian, and 7 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Don't plead with the one you pleaded, never serve the one you served.
Hope it helps. Good luck, Henrique Magalhaes!
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
: In this case the meaning in Portuguese is not 'to plead' but to 'to beg'
1 hr
|
|
"To plead with" conveys exactly the meaning, Paula Vaz-Carreiro!
|
23 hrs
Don't ask anything of a beggar, don't serve [be of use to] a servant
The first one is sort of like: Beggards can't be choosers....
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Note added at 2003-07-05 16:52:34 (GMT)
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Paula
This is literary translation and sometimes a literal passes to a non-literal to MEAN THE SAME THING...
If you say: never ask something of a beggar...it\'s obvious that it means beg in a certain sense. Precisely what makes the Portuguese so good is the fact, in my opinion, that the first pedir is ask something of someone and the SECOND is beg....without that you just get: Don\'t beg from a beggar, which does not have the right click to it in English. IF on the other hand, you say \"Never ask anything of a beggar\" you are implying it, because to ask something of someone is in fact a kind of \"begging\". :)
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Note added at 2003-07-05 16:54:16 (GMT)
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I also understand that people that answered the question didn\'t grasp this subtle transformation in the English expression of the phrase. There was misunderstanding in both languages and you were the only one to point out the ground zero meaning of the phrase. However, a literal meaning usually requires rewriting. IMO
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Note added at 2003-07-05 16:52:34 (GMT)
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Paula
This is literary translation and sometimes a literal passes to a non-literal to MEAN THE SAME THING...
If you say: never ask something of a beggar...it\'s obvious that it means beg in a certain sense. Precisely what makes the Portuguese so good is the fact, in my opinion, that the first pedir is ask something of someone and the SECOND is beg....without that you just get: Don\'t beg from a beggar, which does not have the right click to it in English. IF on the other hand, you say \"Never ask anything of a beggar\" you are implying it, because to ask something of someone is in fact a kind of \"begging\". :)
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Note added at 2003-07-05 16:54:16 (GMT)
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I also understand that people that answered the question didn\'t grasp this subtle transformation in the English expression of the phrase. There was misunderstanding in both languages and you were the only one to point out the ground zero meaning of the phrase. However, a literal meaning usually requires rewriting. IMO
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
: I am sorry Jane but the meaning of 'pedir' in the Portuguese proverb is most DEFINITELY NOT 'ask'. It is 'BEG'.
46 mins
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Paula, there is ambiguity which can translate as "to ask something of" you would't say literarily beg something of a beggar; you would say ask something of a beggar, which re-inforces it; to ask something of someone CAN BE a kind of begging metaphorically
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| agree |
moken
: there's more of "takes one to know one" here than in the previous one. an EX-BEGGAR knows beggars' traits as does an EX-SERVANT know those of a servant. your grammar is all mixed too. plus, none of "be of use to", in any case "wait upon"
20 hrs
|
|
Alvaro, I gotta tell you something about my grammar. It's about as good as it gets. You meant MIXED UP not mixed.
|
1 day 19 hrs
don't beg from beggars and don't serve (wait upon) servants - read first, then disagree!!
i realise that beggar an ex-beggar are not the same thing, but i believe that the only reason for making a difference between a beggar and somebody who has been a beggar, or servant and ex-servant is to underline the fact that the outcome is not due to what THEY are, but to their knowledge of what YOU are. however, since this makes the english translation rather more complicated i would consider leaving the "has been" part out of it.
like i said in my comment upstairs, there is more of the english saying "it takes one to know one" in this phrase than in the previous one, although in english, it takes one to know one is used in a different sense (which falls short of its real possibilities).
the core of both sayings is based upon the same fact - that two people who are similar, know (exactly?) what the other is like.
however the portuguese saying goes a little beyond the shallowness of the english saying, since it implies also an outcome (begging/serving won't be any good to you, since your intentions/actions will be anticipated), whereas the english saying is generally used just as proof of recognition of the other. this is a shame, since were the saying not so superficially used, it could be turned around to mean exactly the same as the portuguese saying.
obviously my comment to jane should be a disagree, not an agree. additionally, this saying has absolutley nothing to do with the saying "beggars can't be choosers" except for the fact that they both mention beggars.
saludos y sonrisas,
álvaro :O)
like i said in my comment upstairs, there is more of the english saying "it takes one to know one" in this phrase than in the previous one, although in english, it takes one to know one is used in a different sense (which falls short of its real possibilities).
the core of both sayings is based upon the same fact - that two people who are similar, know (exactly?) what the other is like.
however the portuguese saying goes a little beyond the shallowness of the english saying, since it implies also an outcome (begging/serving won't be any good to you, since your intentions/actions will be anticipated), whereas the english saying is generally used just as proof of recognition of the other. this is a shame, since were the saying not so superficially used, it could be turned around to mean exactly the same as the portuguese saying.
obviously my comment to jane should be a disagree, not an agree. additionally, this saying has absolutley nothing to do with the saying "beggars can't be choosers" except for the fact that they both mention beggars.
saludos y sonrisas,
álvaro :O)
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