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Oct 28, 2010 19:07
13 yrs ago
Spanish term

iría declinando

Spanish to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting Palma de Mallorca, sculpture
Un exhaustivo análisis a su producción de los últimos treinta años ***iría declinando*** las obsesiones de Forteza: el devastador paso del tiempo, la aceleración de la historia, la descomposición de un mundo, las tergiversaciones de la memoria, el ocaso de la cultura, el lenguaje de los signos, la dimensión estética de la poesía, la indiferencia al arte como síntoma de nuestro tiempo tecnocrático, el ser humano reducido a su desnudez existencial… y combinándolas (sus obsesiones) entre sí con extrema precisión hasta producir un cuadro, un tanto desolador, del mundo contemporáneo observado por un artista escéptico pero fiel a la épica del arte.

From a dialogue with a sculptor on various subjects related to Palma de Mallorca, public art, and urban development- at this point the author is describing the sculptor's own work.

UK Eng. Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 clearly reflects the varying obsessions of Forteza
3 +2 would reveal
4 would be dwindling

Discussion

Andrew Bramhall Oct 29, 2010:
What isn't beside the point though is the meaning of declinar, so yet again I will attempt to explain: Language is broken down into units of meaning, and verbs are descriptive words which can convey many meanings in different tenses through different mouthpieces. Here the word declinar is used in just such a way to convey special meaning as an analogy, i.e, as an aspect of the artists life which can be subjected to a form of "declension" with which and from which to extract meaning in relation to his artistic output. You are quite right to not want to enter arguments;but you are quite wrong to reject or to fail to consider the points I have made on their merits, particularly in view of the fact that I am the only representative of your target audience to have taken part in this discussion. And furthermore, linguistically speaking here, I am right.
Kate Major Patience (asker) Oct 29, 2010:
OK We could be pendantic about where exactly the comments are placed: when I was writing my comments they were above what I was writing as well as below. Rather besides the point, and not at all related to the question. I will choose the term appropriate to my professional uses, and I can tell you now that my priorities include clarity as well as style, so that's a hint. Thank you everyone for your input. I will not be entering in to arguments as that is not what this forum is for. Thanks again everyone.
Andrew Bramhall Oct 29, 2010:
@KATE- I totally disagree that my comments are "all over the place and contradictory".I appear to be the only contributor who has understood and clearly explained the meaning and use of 'declinar' here.And also, re your comment below ("readinf the disagrees above,..)- there aren't any disagrees above.(?)
Kate Major Patience (asker) Oct 28, 2010:
Oliver Your comments are all over the place: really contradictory. I totally agree that this is about the unfolding themes in his work over the years, though I think "yield up an inflection" is not what I'm looking for: it only adds to the confusion. Of course these texts really say what they mean clearly: that is often the way with this field. On the contrary, "reveal" works pretty well for me. As do a host of other options, and I would thank you to allow others space to have a view without going for the jugular! Liz: there's no question of this being negative, so I'd rather drop that particular question entirely, to be honest, since it's not a matter for debate in my opinion. Nevertheless, I am thankful for your help, input and involvement in general: I have a tight deadline and could not appreciate your help any more than today! Cheers.
liz askew Oct 28, 2010:
Oliver, have you found any other instances of "declinar" which means what you say.....i.e. has a positive meaning. I have not been able to.
Andrew Bramhall Oct 28, 2010:
If the author truly meant 'reveal' why didn't he use a word like revelar or despejar which meant that, then? Answer=because he didn't mean that directly.The connotation here is positive.It means the gradual unveiling of a series of moods and attitudes which caused the subject to behave the way he did.
Kate Major Patience (asker) Oct 28, 2010:
Positive I have to point out that the piece is at no point hostile towards the artist: it's a dialogue with the artist - it's friendly, and full of praise for his work. There is no way that the connotations of this term are negative in this sense. And what about the linguistic meaning of "decline"? Anyway.
liz askew Oct 28, 2010:
However, see here too:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Wi4CC7rLNFkC&pg=PT300&lpg...
liz askew Oct 28, 2010:
Hi, fair enough, this is not my field, but no matter where I look I cannot find any positive connotations for "declinar", which from my searches = refute/reject/deny/....
Kate Major Patience (asker) Oct 28, 2010:
Meaning of phrase I do think that the meaning of the phrase is something like "reveal", that his obsessions would "unfold"... Seeing that people have various ideas on this, I am open to explanations as to an alternative meaning, since I really don't see it.

Proposed translations

+6
55 mins
Spanish term (edited): iría declinando las obsesiones de Forteza
Selected

clearly reflects the varying obsessions of Forteza

Comments:

1.
I don't think that replication of the conditional tense is necessary here. No real "condition" (in the sense of "if-then") is being referred to here (i.e., the "exhaustive analysis" in question has obviously already been conducted;otherwise, the accompanying assertion would be impossible!).

2.
The metaphor here, in my reading, is to the *declination* of a noun, and thus to "variations on a theme" (the "theme" being, in this case, Forteza's obsessions).

3.
"Dwindling" doesn't fit here ("declinar" does not mean "decline" or "diminish" here) and "yield up an inflection" strikes me as opaque jargon that obscures rather than reveals meaning.

Suerte.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day17 mins (2010-10-29 19:24:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here is what spanishdict.com gives as one definition of "declinar":

5. To decline a word by various determinations. (Grammar)

Given this standing acceptable use of the verb, and given the context of the text in question, I stand by my original suggestion.
Note from asker:
For what it's worth, reading the disagrees above, I must be wrong too then, because I assumed that the sense of the phrase was something like this. Thanks.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jennifer Levey : Especially with your point 3.
16 mins
Thank you, MM.
agree philgoddard : "Forteza's varying obsessions" might be better.
43 mins
I agree. Thanks, Phil.
agree claudia bagnardi
1 hr
Gracias, Claudia. Mi mas sentido pesame por la muerte del Sr. Kirchner.
agree liz askew : After all the debate, now I do :)
1 hr
Thanks so much, Liz. :)
agree Colin Ryan (X) : Mr. Forstag, it's an honour to see a capable and talented translator deal with a problem and then move on.
15 hrs
Thank you, Ryan. :)
agree Lydia De Jorge
1 day 3 hrs
Thank you, Lydia.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
6 mins

would be dwindling

Una sugerencia.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Andrew Bramhall : dwindle means to decrease in number or effect.//Well, how would you work that into a translation of the sentence ?
2 mins
yes, the effects on him by"del ocaso de la cultura, etc.
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr

would reveal

not as complicated as the Spanish might suggest
Peer comment(s):
agree liz askew
1 hr
agree Colin Ryan (X) : Lovely. Here's an example of use in context: "I am not only fascinated by what languages are, but also by what they have the potential to become, and the older I get the more their subtleties REVEAL themselves to me"
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
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