Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 3, 2010:

Ano.

Jan Vančura (asker) Sep 3, 2010:

Hannah, thanks, I misspelt that. You are right about most Czech acquired words being from German - there are a large number of similar words (society-related) that are from French (nonšalantní, dáma, avantgardní, negližé etc.).

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 3, 2010:

Actually, Jan, in French it is "aventure" not "avanture" but you may of course be right. I spoke of German mostly because, due to our history, the Czechs would be taking from the Germans rather than the French (unlike the Russians) but obviously with the "v" in French rather than the "b" in German it does sound closer.

Jan Vančura (asker) Sep 3, 2010:

OK, you win, I give up :) There is no objective reason why it couldn't be "shenanigans".

Rad Graban (X) Sep 3, 2010:

Yesterday's article "Blair's memoirs concern more than just affairs of state -- Britain's ex-premier also gives intimate details about his wife and describes the sexual shenanigans of other politicians."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100902/tpl-animal-blair-s-memo...

Jan Vančura (asker) Sep 3, 2010:

The text is Czech, and it's not a CV written by the person, it's more of a biography of the person written by one third person for another. It's mostly about the "shady deals" of the person, and this particular sentence describes what he was up to when he was young. Those things included various scams, occasionally a prostitute, deals with shady characters most of his scam partners wouldn't go near, etc.

Shenanigans isn't all that bad, It just didn't feel right. Another reason might be that it's very American, and the addressee of the text is European (not an English native).

Maria, yes, you are right, the PRIMARY meaning is romantic/sexual. The same dictionary also suggests that there are other meanings/other forms of adventures the word may refer to. This is, of course, speaking of the Czech version, "zejména" - if "najma" means the same in Slovakian as "najmě" (which is supposedly a Slovakism itself) in Czech, then the meanings differ.

"Avantýry" is almost certainly of French origin (just pronounce "avanture" with a Czech accent and you're there ;)), and it even has an alternate spelling as "avantura". See http://www.wattpad.com/88800--E-TINA-PRAVOPISN-R-DCE?p=

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 2, 2010:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shenanigan

Maria Chmelarova Sep 2, 2010:

avanturizmus a avnatýra soci uz bolo napisane, "most of people, who ask at Proz.com already opened a dictionary or twoo..." konecne sa ktosi (opat)pyta co je to avantyra.
Rozdiel medzi avanturizmus - sklon k dobrodruzstvam, nezodpovednemu chovaniu (spravaniu)
avantyra- mensie dobrodruzstvo, najma MILOSTNE, opat zo slovnika - cudzich slov.cz
Bolo by hadam vhodne, keby sme sa dozvedeli ci je to clanok, preklad knihy alebo....? Suhlasim s Charles(om), treba to opisat vzhladom na text. Milostne dobrodruzstva a podvody v obchodnej neregularnosti....hmm, vsetko je mozne. Lenze avantyra je milostne dobrodruzstvo- mozno len pre moju genaraciu!
Rusky slovnik adventures - avantura (nemam rusku klavesnicu)

Rad Graban (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Part of the ethymolgy missing so here is the link: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Etymology-Meaning-Words-1474/2009...

Rad Graban (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Why "too" colloquial? It's used in a variety of contexts/texts - from relationships to "Watergate", just as in Hannah's examples.

Rad Graban (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Etymology of "shenanigans" (and usage) Trickery, skulduggery, machination, intrigue; teasing, ‘kidding’, nonsense; (usu. pl.) a plot, a trick, a prank, an exhibition of high spirits, a carry-on. Hence she naniganning, she nanigin(g), pres. pple. and vbl. n.

1855 Town Talk (San Francisco) 25 Apr. 2 Are you quite sure? No shenanigan? 1856 Spirit of Age (Sacramento) 30 Apr. 2 These facts indicate that there is some shenanegan going on. 1857 C. E. DE LONG Jrnl. 15 Aug. in Calif. Hist. Soc. Q. (1930) IX. 156 Race came off Whiskey Bill winner, the Mare's rider held in, and Smith pronouncing it shenanigan. 1862 ‘MARK TWAIN’ Let. May (1917) I. iii. 77 Consider them all..guilty (of ‘shenanigan’) until they are proved innocent. 1894 M. J. JAQUES Texan Ranch Life xiii. 115 He assured me that he was not ‘shenan-neganning’ me, and that the dish would prove a delicacy. 1897 Outing (U.S.) XXIX. 483/1 A man who is firmly kind, but who will stand no shinanigan. 1901 W. S. WALKER In Blood xxxi. 332 We're mates all round, an' no more shenannikin. 1902 R. BARR Victors v. 81 If I were to pay them they might think there was some shenanigan about it. 1924 J. MASEFIELD Lord Harker III. 146 Now, brother, answer me and no damned shinanniking. 1

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 2, 2010:

.......organizovat nesmyslné kriminalizační avantýry
http://blog.aktualne.centrum.cz/blogy/jan-beranek.php?itemid...

http://www.sms.cz/film/annie_hallova
.........jsme především svědky pronikavé analýzy všech fází dlouhodobé avantýry dvou hlavních postav

…..a předevšim na ty, kteři se do teto avantyry pustili
se mnou
http://www.horaduse.cz/download/hora-duse-doslov.pdf

Rad Graban (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Thanks Hannah but... ... I meant usage examples/whole sentences.

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Myslím že to je zkomolenina z němčiny “abenteuer/adventures”myslím že před ‘89 jsme měli více německých a teď máme více anglických. A tohle zřejmě zůstalo.

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 2, 2010:

sklon k dobrodružství, neodpovědné chování
http://www.slovnik-cizich-slov.cz/avanturizmus.html
Definice slova (Avantýra): menší dobrodružství, zejm. Milostné
http://www.youlexicon.com/language/czech/detail.aspx?id=3697

Rad Graban (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Colloquial -v- too colloquial Could anyone post a definition of "avantýry" as defined in the Dictionary of Czech language (usage examples would be appreciated). I'm really intrigued now.

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 2, 2010:

...on the other hand, 'to have an inclination to shady deals" can mean that one can spend quite a bit of time in jail, or a slammer, to put it differently...

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Charles, I must say the 'never a slow mover in the trouser department' sounds absolutely hilarious - I just don't know who talks like this, for heaven's sake.....I am serious.......are you? Actually, why is everybody mostly talking of the "trouser department' when the impression is of an irresponsible guy who gets into all sorts of shady deals...............maybe even in a skirt! As to your"shady deals" I actually think that it is very good, the fault may be with me because it is just too colloquial for me generally, unless I am translating a corresponding situational dialogue or text etc.

Charles Stanford Sep 2, 2010:

Dodgy/dubious/shady/illicit/murky would all work dealings/affairs/shenanigans/adventures as well. Depends I suppose completely on the context and the register and exactly what he was up to. I always think that in English we tend to use verbal phrases more than Germans/Czechs/Slovaks - we are never very good at coming up with a single noun that does the trick. So maybe you could try attacking it with a verbal phrase or focusing more on the verb at any rate - :indulged in the murkier end of the moral spectrum" /"hovered on the edge of the law" /"dabbled in shady dealings"/"did not cowtow to conventional morals"/"never a slow mover in the trouser department"/ "lived fast and extremely loose" - I don't know, I could get very juvenile about this - but I just think you should try talking your way around it with a verb-based euphemism, because trying to hit the perfect noun for avantyrky could take you forever. And I still don't know exactly what an avantyrka is. If you take care of the rest of the sentence then the noun really does not matter. Louche would work as an adjective to describe him, murky for what he got up to perhaps because it is international (dodgy too British...)

Rad Graban (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Still not convinced I still believe that "shenanigans" works better when we are talking about business/financial/accounting etc. dodgy practices. Also, why on earth would someone mention his/her "avantýry" in their "CV"? Isn't it more like memoir you're talking about?

mashak (X) Sep 2, 2010:

possibility: "illicit (scandalous) affairs"

Jan Vančura (asker) Sep 2, 2010:

Rad, well put. The text is a bit like a curriculum vitae, and thinking about it, it's not about being colloquial, it's more about the tone - this type of text requires a neutral tone, which I feel "escapades" has more of than "shenanigans". I think I would say "shenanigans" about something a friend does, but not about something a businessman/politician/celebrity does (unless I wanted it to sound like the former).

Rad Graban (X) Sep 2, 2010:

Only you know the whole text I'm not sure though, where is the line between "colloquial" and "too colloquial" in general/conversation/letters etc. context. There is a difference between "colloquial" and "slang", and "shenanigans" is a colloquial rather than a slang word, hence I wouldn't be probably afraid of using it. But as I said, only you know what is suitable for your text.

Jan Vančura (asker) Sep 2, 2010:

Rad, Shenanigans is pretty good - I've heard it used in the context. Sounds a bit too colloquial to me, though, so I can't use it in the text.

Maria, most people who ask at ProZ.com have already opened a dictionary or two. Sure, avantýra is usually meant as a sexual escapade, but it doesn't strictly have to be. In this context, it was probably meant as various irregular (mostly illegal) activities - not only visiting prostitutes, but also paying them to visit and discredit competitors (both in business and politics - it is about Russia where the distinction is blurred), for example.

Rad Graban (X) Sep 1, 2010:

"Shenanigans" Would be my suggestion. Posting it here as I can't see "Answer" button anywhere (not a member).

Maria Chmelarova Sep 1, 2010:

Hannah thanks, very similar as in my post. Loooove it.........

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 1, 2010:

Maria I am also giving you a bit of English usage from
www.thefreedictionary.com/escapade
escapade [ˈɛskəˌpeɪd ˌɛskəˈpeɪd]
n
1. a wild or exciting adventure, esp one that is mischievous or unlawful; scrape
2. any lighthearted or carefree episode; prank; romp
[from French, from Old Italian scappata, from Vulgar Latin ex-cappāre (unattested) to ESCAPE]
Also: escapade
n escapade [eskəˈpeid]
a daring or adventurous act, often one that is disapproved of by others
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary © 2006-2010

mashak (X) Sep 1, 2010:

"Affairs" is certainly the right expression, could be qualified as "shady"

Maria Chmelarova Sep 1, 2010:

love it... escapade-French, action of escaping, from Sp. escapada, from escapar to escape, from vulgar L. escappare-first known use 1667

slov. - eskapáda- 1. utek, unik; 2. falosny skok jazdeckeho kona; 3. svojvolny nerozvazny cin.

Maria Chmelarova Sep 1, 2010:

Hannah dakujem za prihovor. Instinktivne, prve co ma napadlo bolo milostne avantury (milostne dobrodruzstva).
Avanturizmus (m.) - je v slovniku cudzich slov a z lat. preslo do franc.; teda to nie je paskvil/paškvil - urazlivy pisomny prejav, hanopis (pamflet/pamphlet - is an unbound booklet. Zaujimave a zrejme stratene prekladom.

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 1, 2010:

not at all, thanks

Jan Vančura (asker) Sep 1, 2010:

"Affairs" is certainly not it. "Escapades" seems close, though - thanks Hannah.

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 1, 2010:

Maria Promiňte prosím, já na to šla spíše instinktivně než 'slovníkově', ačkoliv jsem si svoje zrevidovala v Oxfordu . V životě - jednoho nesmysl může být druhého perla, a to hlavně na Proz.com., vtip. (Slovo avanturizmus je mimochodem paskvil).

Maria Chmelarova Sep 1, 2010:

avanturizmus sklon k dobrudruznemu konaniu, zaluba v dobrodruzstvach (avanturach); nezodpovedne, dobrodruzne politicke konanie, politika
avantura- dobrodruzna prihoda, mensie dobrodruzstvo, lubostna a.
avanturizmus - (love of) political adventure (Poldauf)
avanturisticky - politically adventurous

ale anantyra - coll. (hovorovy vyraz) love affair

pytajuci uviedol otazku pod general conv., coll., letters and etc.
Z definicie avanturisticky - dobrodruzstva v politickom svete, ako sa tam dostali obchodne neregularnosti...?
Preto som vzala do uvahy coll. vyraz a tym sa myslia love affairs.

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 1, 2010:

No děkuji Igore, myslím že jde pouze o individuální názor. 'Affair' bych prostě nikdy nepoužila, ani jeden z Vášich odkazů pro mne není dostatečně přesvědčivý, obzvláště ten první odkaz. Upřímně řečeno já jsem byla schopna své odpovědi protože se mi zdála více jednoznačná pro Janův kontext. No ale to snad je dobře - názorů na ‘tabuli’ je většinou tolik co lidí, že.

Igor Liba Sep 1, 2010:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affair
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/affair

Hannah Geiger (X) Sep 1, 2010:

Tohle je celkem zajímavé ………já bych zde “affairs” použila pouze pro” love affairs”. Pak, je 'Dept. of Veterans Affairs', nebo 'Consumer Affairs', 'Foreign Affairs', taky se říká “none of your affairs; takže to vůbec ve smyslu ‘riskantní’ nebo’hazardní’ není používané. Já osobně bych daný kontext IMHO nikdy nepopsala slovem “affair”- ale uvádím to spíše jako zajímavost než kritiku.