Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

rasoplichter

English translation:

swindler by nature

Added to glossary by Lianne van de Ven
Aug 11, 2010 18:45
14 yrs ago
Dutch term

rasoplichter

Dutch to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters attribution
"...en een Egyptische rasoplichter die erop stond met Doctor te worden aangesproken..."
Change log

Aug 11, 2010 22:15: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Idioms / Maxims / Sayings" to "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters"

Aug 15, 2010 06:16: Lianne van de Ven Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): writeaway

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Discussion

Terry Costin Aug 12, 2010:
Thanks Barend Thank you Barend,

Of course likewise, you are permitted to voice your ideas and opinions, in the spirit of mutual sharing, helping and respect, and more, my intentions are the gaining of knowledge and understanding.

Barend quote:
-> I disagree with you on both points. 1) "quack" has both the meaning you mentioned and this other meaning.

Unquote.
You said it had the meaning I outlined and 'this other one'.

I took the 'this other one' part, as meaning, the other meaning here above asked in the question.
Barend van Zadelhoff Aug 12, 2010:
Hallo Terry I cannot respond to something that you don't mention
You now introduce a new point, the point pertaining to the question of the meanings of quack

I do think it has two meanings:

1) someone who pretends to be a doctor - used in order to show disapproval
quacks selling weight-loss drugs

2) British English informal a doctor
You'd better go and see the quack with that burn.

I NEVER implied you have no right to voice your opinions, but I do have a right to voice mine as well

I have to leave my home now but I could respond later to further entries if appropriate
Terry Costin Aug 12, 2010:
Lianne > My answer would be born con-artist, because I dislike gender defined terms in writing. Dutch is full of them and mostly in the male form, he this and he that. In this day and age that old-fashioned male dominated approach is way out of date, in my opinion. I avoid translating things repeating it and using it in English. I also don't like using ONE in English as it sounds pompous but I do and otherwise I find other ways around this.

Still, the root is 'confidence trickster', all the rest are abbreviations and abbreviated bastardisations. If I were to write such a thing it would be using confidence trickster, because my belief is that such statements are not real, nobody is born a killer or a liar.
Terry Costin Aug 12, 2010:
You mentioned two points Barend, you mentioned two things, one about quack, in your response, in light of this, I have every right to voice my opinions in more detail in response to you.
I know you did not say that there is such a thing as born quack, but your idea that it could be right, in relation to it having two meanings, leads me to say again, you are wrong.
Barend, the point of a discussion option is to discuss, you say one thing I say another, therefoere I have every right to articulate on what I think.
Positive criticism is something good, some people though, do not understand what it is, and experience such things as all out attack.
Lianne van de Ven Aug 12, 2010:
@ Terry Terry, after your three neutrals and additional discussion entry, and being a native English speaker, what is your suggested translation for 'rasoplichter' in this sentence?
Barend van Zadelhoff Aug 12, 2010:
Hallo Terry I NEVER used the phrase "born a quack"
someone else offered "a born con-man"

all I offered is "archcharlatan", I offered something with "arch"
so don't critizice me for something that doesn't exist


I avoided "quack" as this seemed to me to be too specific

the rest is all your thoughts, so I would say just offer as an answer what you think that it should be
Terry Costin Aug 12, 2010:
Quack and, confidence trickster the root Barend, a person cannot be a born quack.

I cannot see that quack could correctly convey what is meant here.
Con is the abbreviation of confidence, confidence alone is not usable, trickster is the other qualifying part. Along with the abbreviation to con, the word trickster has been replaced by man (gender assigned) merchant or artist.

To write out Born confidence artist, would make no sense, nobody uses that, and, it actually has no meaning. Same with merchant. Born confidence merchant, meaningless, born confidence man, meaningless.
Even 'born confidence trickster' doesn't sound right, but it is.

Proposed translations

+1
6 mins
Selected

swindler by nature

Northern Exposure: 4.7 The Bad Seed
Jackie Vincoeur (guest star Valerie Perrine), a swindler by nature, arrives in town and announces she is Holling's daughter. Holling is even more shocked ...
http://home.comcast.net/~mcnotes/47.html
Peer comment(s):

agree Verginia Ophof : or born crook ?
1 hr
i like born crook too, and you could enter it as an answer.
neutral Terry Costin : An Egyptian, a swindler by nature who demanded that others address him as a doctor... just doesn't seem to roll
20 hrs
I don't have a judgment about what to use in the given phrase. Too short anyway. This is a good translation, however, of 'rasoplichter'.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thank you"
+3
1 hr

a born con-man

fairly common usage
Example sentence:

He's a born con man, Michael. And you can't help but like him. Even though you know you're being had, you can't help but like him.

Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway : or born con-artist. makes more sense here. Wants to be addressed as Doctor. that's a con
2 hrs
thanks
agree Albert Stufkens
3 hrs
thanks
neutral Elwing95 : Con.man is really american slang though
12 hrs
thanks for the comment - there's no indication of the target language, so...
agree Terry Costin : but my definite choice is 'con-artist', seeing as nobody has offered it as an answer only as comment (Writeaway) I'll agree to this as it is what the equivalent is in Dutch. Artist is neutral man is not. To say you are a con-man to a woman?
20 hrs
thanks
neutral copheoske : Actually, in this particular example she is a man ;-)
22 hrs
Thanks. Amazing how such an innocuous term can stir such a discussion! Must be due to tonight's alignment of grouping of Mars, Saturn, Venus and the cresent Moon!!
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+1
8 hrs

archcharlatan

also written as arch-charlatan
or arch charlatan, which I think is incorrect

and an archcharlatan from Egypt who insisted on being addressed as Doctor

in this case, because it seems to concern a person who passes himself off as a doctor, I would prefer "charlatan"or "quack"

charlatan - someone who pretends to have special skills or knowledge - used to show disapproval (Longman)

quack - someone who pretends to be a doctor - used in order to show disapproval (Longman)
quacks selling weight-loss drugs

VDale charlatan -
1) kwakzalver, beunhaas, oplichter
2) opschepper, windbuil, praalhans

Een charlatan is een speciaal soort oplichter die voorziet in zijn behoeften door systematisch mensen te bedriegen over zijn afkomst, vaardigheden, intenties of prestaties. Een charlatan maakt gebruik van zijn charme. Het woord wordt ook wel gebruikt voor mensen die zonder zelf de bewuste intentie te hebben te misleiden ideeën of denkbeelden presenteren die zij zelf voor waar houden maar die de wetenschappelijke toets der kritiek niet kunnen weerstaan. In de geneeskunde spreekt men dan vaak van kwakzalverij.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practising quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception.

The word comes from French charlatan, a seller of medicines who might advertise his presence with music and an outdoor stage show. The best known of the Parisian charlatans was Tabarin, who set up a stage in the Place Dauphin, Paris in 1618, and whose commedia dell'arte inspired skits and whose farces inspired Molière. Ultimately, etymologists trace "charlatan" from either the Italian ciarlare, to prattle; or from Cerretano, a resident of Cerreto, a village in Umbria, known for its quacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

charlatan, however, is only half the job, for what could be a translation for "rasoplichter" if he is a "rascharlatan" ?

I think "archcharlatan" does the trick

I'll give you a few examples as well

Keith is portrayed as the archcharlatan, a man of willpower and determination, sly, witty, without moral scruples, utterly self-centered

http://www.wordnik.com/words/archcharlatan

Fabulous long excursion through the follies of the Earf Day minions. Your essay on Sendler and the accompanying one from American Thinker inspire, yet also make the blood boil (and not from Global Warming). I like to think of the warming the Nobel Committee and archcharlatan Gore will be feeling as they spend eternity in Hell for their shoddy treatment of Irena Sendler

http://vocalminority.typepad.com/blog/2009/04/its-earth-day-...

But such a result, desirable as it might be, can hardly be expected soon, for these remarkable records, the archives of a bygone era and of a race long since vanished from the earth, are in the possession of the archcharlatan of our century; and the only result that can be reasonably anticipated from his pretended translation of these hieroglyphics is another delectable little book, something like the 'Book of Mormon,' only perhaps even more absurd and ridiculous than this is!

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/St._Louis_Gazette/May_18,_1844

On the night of December 23, 1913 the United States Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act and thereby committed the greatest act of TREASON in history. It surrendered this nation's sovereignty and sold the American people into slavery to a cabal of arch-charlatan international bankers who proceeded to plunder, bankrupt, and conquer this nation with a money swindle

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/03/17/fed-cuts-rates-by-a-qua...
Peer comment(s):

agree Elwing95 : Quack depends on if he really pretends to be a doctor/healer. Other than that I think charlatan is perfect.
5 hrs
Thank you. Yes "quack" is more specific. Perhaps too specific.
neutral Terry Costin : But it's a term hardly used these days, the other quack is not correct at all, a quack in Britain is used to refer to doctors, it's just a name to call doctors, I'm off to the quacks, because people do not always fully trust them
10 hrs
I disagree with you on both points. 1) "quack" has both the meaning you mentioned and this other meaning 2) frequency of use (which is significant by the way) is in itself not a valid argument for questioning it as a translation
Something went wrong...
22 hrs

a true swindler/crook

Interesting discussions so far about the possible translations, but I like to keep things simple for a word like this. "true" or even "pure" would work for the prefix ras-
As for "oplichter": plenty of choices there.. swindler, sharper, crook, con-man, ... take your pick ;)
Example sentence:

That kind of thing would only be done by a true swindler.

Something went wrong...
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