Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Dutch term or phrase:
rasoplichter
English translation:
swindler by nature
Dutch term
rasoplichter
5 +1 | swindler by nature | Lianne van de Ven |
3 +3 | a born con-man | Frank van Thienen (X) |
3 +1 | archcharlatan | Barend van Zadelhoff |
4 | a true swindler/crook | Mark Straver |
Aug 11, 2010 22:15: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Idioms / Maxims / Sayings" to "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters"
Aug 15, 2010 06:16: Lianne van de Ven Created KOG entry
Non-PRO (1): writeaway
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Proposed translations
swindler by nature
Jackie Vincoeur (guest star Valerie Perrine), a swindler by nature, arrives in town and announces she is Holling's daughter. Holling is even more shocked ...
http://home.comcast.net/~mcnotes/47.html
agree |
Verginia Ophof
: or born crook ?
1 hr
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i like born crook too, and you could enter it as an answer.
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neutral |
Terry Costin
: An Egyptian, a swindler by nature who demanded that others address him as a doctor... just doesn't seem to roll
20 hrs
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I don't have a judgment about what to use in the given phrase. Too short anyway. This is a good translation, however, of 'rasoplichter'.
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a born con-man
He's a born con man, Michael. And you can't help but like him. Even though you know you're being had, you can't help but like him.
agree |
writeaway
: or born con-artist. makes more sense here. Wants to be addressed as Doctor. that's a con
2 hrs
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thanks
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agree |
Albert Stufkens
3 hrs
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thanks
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neutral |
Elwing95
: Con.man is really american slang though
12 hrs
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thanks for the comment - there's no indication of the target language, so...
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agree |
Terry Costin
: but my definite choice is 'con-artist', seeing as nobody has offered it as an answer only as comment (Writeaway) I'll agree to this as it is what the equivalent is in Dutch. Artist is neutral man is not. To say you are a con-man to a woman?
20 hrs
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thanks
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neutral |
copheoske
: Actually, in this particular example she is a man ;-)
22 hrs
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Thanks. Amazing how such an innocuous term can stir such a discussion! Must be due to tonight's alignment of grouping of Mars, Saturn, Venus and the cresent Moon!!
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archcharlatan
or arch charlatan, which I think is incorrect
and an archcharlatan from Egypt who insisted on being addressed as Doctor
in this case, because it seems to concern a person who passes himself off as a doctor, I would prefer "charlatan"or "quack"
charlatan - someone who pretends to have special skills or knowledge - used to show disapproval (Longman)
quack - someone who pretends to be a doctor - used in order to show disapproval (Longman)
quacks selling weight-loss drugs
VDale charlatan -
1) kwakzalver, beunhaas, oplichter
2) opschepper, windbuil, praalhans
Een charlatan is een speciaal soort oplichter die voorziet in zijn behoeften door systematisch mensen te bedriegen over zijn afkomst, vaardigheden, intenties of prestaties. Een charlatan maakt gebruik van zijn charme. Het woord wordt ook wel gebruikt voor mensen die zonder zelf de bewuste intentie te hebben te misleiden ideeën of denkbeelden presenteren die zij zelf voor waar houden maar die de wetenschappelijke toets der kritiek niet kunnen weerstaan. In de geneeskunde spreekt men dan vaak van kwakzalverij.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan
A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practising quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception.
The word comes from French charlatan, a seller of medicines who might advertise his presence with music and an outdoor stage show. The best known of the Parisian charlatans was Tabarin, who set up a stage in the Place Dauphin, Paris in 1618, and whose commedia dell'arte inspired skits and whose farces inspired Molière. Ultimately, etymologists trace "charlatan" from either the Italian ciarlare, to prattle; or from Cerretano, a resident of Cerreto, a village in Umbria, known for its quacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan
charlatan, however, is only half the job, for what could be a translation for "rasoplichter" if he is a "rascharlatan" ?
I think "archcharlatan" does the trick
I'll give you a few examples as well
Keith is portrayed as the archcharlatan, a man of willpower and determination, sly, witty, without moral scruples, utterly self-centered
http://www.wordnik.com/words/archcharlatan
Fabulous long excursion through the follies of the Earf Day minions. Your essay on Sendler and the accompanying one from American Thinker inspire, yet also make the blood boil (and not from Global Warming). I like to think of the warming the Nobel Committee and archcharlatan Gore will be feeling as they spend eternity in Hell for their shoddy treatment of Irena Sendler
http://vocalminority.typepad.com/blog/2009/04/its-earth-day-...
But such a result, desirable as it might be, can hardly be expected soon, for these remarkable records, the archives of a bygone era and of a race long since vanished from the earth, are in the possession of the archcharlatan of our century; and the only result that can be reasonably anticipated from his pretended translation of these hieroglyphics is another delectable little book, something like the 'Book of Mormon,' only perhaps even more absurd and ridiculous than this is!
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/St._Louis_Gazette/May_18,_1844
On the night of December 23, 1913 the United States Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act and thereby committed the greatest act of TREASON in history. It surrendered this nation's sovereignty and sold the American people into slavery to a cabal of arch-charlatan international bankers who proceeded to plunder, bankrupt, and conquer this nation with a money swindle
http://crooksandliars.com/2008/03/17/fed-cuts-rates-by-a-qua...
agree |
Elwing95
: Quack depends on if he really pretends to be a doctor/healer. Other than that I think charlatan is perfect.
5 hrs
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Thank you. Yes "quack" is more specific. Perhaps too specific.
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neutral |
Terry Costin
: But it's a term hardly used these days, the other quack is not correct at all, a quack in Britain is used to refer to doctors, it's just a name to call doctors, I'm off to the quacks, because people do not always fully trust them
10 hrs
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I disagree with you on both points. 1) "quack" has both the meaning you mentioned and this other meaning 2) frequency of use (which is significant by the way) is in itself not a valid argument for questioning it as a translation
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a true swindler/crook
As for "oplichter": plenty of choices there.. swindler, sharper, crook, con-man, ... take your pick ;)
That kind of thing would only be done by a true swindler.
Discussion
Of course likewise, you are permitted to voice your ideas and opinions, in the spirit of mutual sharing, helping and respect, and more, my intentions are the gaining of knowledge and understanding.
Barend quote:
-> I disagree with you on both points. 1) "quack" has both the meaning you mentioned and this other meaning.
Unquote.
You said it had the meaning I outlined and 'this other one'.
I took the 'this other one' part, as meaning, the other meaning here above asked in the question.
You now introduce a new point, the point pertaining to the question of the meanings of quack
I do think it has two meanings:
1) someone who pretends to be a doctor - used in order to show disapproval
quacks selling weight-loss drugs
2) British English informal a doctor
You'd better go and see the quack with that burn.
I NEVER implied you have no right to voice your opinions, but I do have a right to voice mine as well
I have to leave my home now but I could respond later to further entries if appropriate
Still, the root is 'confidence trickster', all the rest are abbreviations and abbreviated bastardisations. If I were to write such a thing it would be using confidence trickster, because my belief is that such statements are not real, nobody is born a killer or a liar.
I know you did not say that there is such a thing as born quack, but your idea that it could be right, in relation to it having two meanings, leads me to say again, you are wrong.
Barend, the point of a discussion option is to discuss, you say one thing I say another, therefoere I have every right to articulate on what I think.
Positive criticism is something good, some people though, do not understand what it is, and experience such things as all out attack.
someone else offered "a born con-man"
all I offered is "archcharlatan", I offered something with "arch"
so don't critizice me for something that doesn't exist
I avoided "quack" as this seemed to me to be too specific
the rest is all your thoughts, so I would say just offer as an answer what you think that it should be
I cannot see that quack could correctly convey what is meant here.
Con is the abbreviation of confidence, confidence alone is not usable, trickster is the other qualifying part. Along with the abbreviation to con, the word trickster has been replaced by man (gender assigned) merchant or artist.
To write out Born confidence artist, would make no sense, nobody uses that, and, it actually has no meaning. Same with merchant. Born confidence merchant, meaningless, born confidence man, meaningless.
Even 'born confidence trickster' doesn't sound right, but it is.