Aude Sylvain May 23, 2010:

Kashew, oui les autres expressions sont parfaites. Je suppose, à la lecture du texte, que l'auteur a utilisé "noir *d'ivresse*" pour conserver le rythme de la phrase (à chaque fois 2 termes dont une couleur). S'il ne l'avait pas fait, "être noir" aurait été le... mouton noir de la phrase ! Dans ce contexte, je garderais donc effectivement le texte fr. tel quel.

kashew (asker) May 23, 2010:

Pour Aude, the source text: "Sur un autre plan, l’homme utilise aussi les couleurs pour traduire ses émotions ou ses sentiments : être vert de peur, rouge de honte, être noir d’ivresse ou voir la vie en rose."
Good French? Should it be modified or not?

Aude Sylvain May 23, 2010:

meaning Kashew / Polyglot, je peux me tromper mais je n'ai jamais entendu "noir d'ivresse" en Fr-Fr, et notamment pas dans le sens de "grisant" - même si j'aime personnellement beaucoup cette interprétation ! Nous avons l'expression, un peu vieillotte, "être noir" (= "être ivre", avoir trop bu) Voir I-B-3 http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/noir/substantif. Je pencherais plutôt pour les premières interprétations données : "Etre noir d'ivresse"serait peut-être une déformation d'"être noir", une sorte de pléonasme.

kashew (asker) May 23, 2010:

Thanks for all your thoughts! I've now done it - Polyglot's way!
PS: I think "ivresse" must mean "transport".
PPS: I've learnt that green for inexperienced is bleu in French!
PPPS: "It's not easy being green" - Kermit. Translate that!

X2010 May 23, 2010:

Nor have I ever heard of it polyglot. My closest shot for the moment would be "black bile".

polyglot45 May 23, 2010:

X2010 Frankly "noir d'ivresse" relating to being one over the eight is not a usage I have ever heard in France - I associate it more with something that is "grisant"

X2010 May 23, 2010:

polyglot well that was my initial take too until Kashew gave us more to go on.

polyglot45 May 23, 2010:

@X2010 I was a bit surprised that everyone focused on the booze angle !

X2010 May 23, 2010:

you've got me wondering now, Kashew, whether "ivresse" here necessarily refers to "alcoholic" intoxication. Might it just be "black mood"? (an excess of bile).
"ivresse" can mean any form of "excess".
Just saw polyglot45's entry, he's on the right track.

polyglot45 May 23, 2010:

or change the examples, keeping those that work and ditching those that don't - we are not "green" with fear but perhaps "white", "red" with shame or perhaps "pink", purple with anger, black with hatred, green with jealousy - take your pick !

kashew (asker) May 23, 2010:

My French source: "Sur un autre plan, l’homme utilise aussi les couleurs pour traduire ses émotions ou ses sentiments : être vert de peur, rouge de honte, être noir d’ivresse ou voir la vie en rose. La couleur est partout dans l’expression de nos sentiments : le rouge couleur sang traduit la passion, le vert comme la nature [ou] la naissance, le bleu comme le ciel l’esprit et la pensée, le jaune comme le soleil l’invention, la découverte, l’intuition."

So, some colours (and associations) transpose near enough but others don't cross the cultural barrier. An interesting translating problem, eh? Do I keep the colour or the association? Especially for the "black" one.

X2010 May 23, 2010:

TonyM Interesting, in everyday parlance, in reference to mood, "noir" would mean "dark" or "black" - in terms of drunkeness, to a low drunken mood, not to a high drunken mood.
"Noir d'ivresse" would aptly describe that dour, sullen character you might spot in the dark corner of a pub on the way to the WC, totally lost to the world, pathetically nursing a half-empty (sic.) glass of the hard stuff. Gloom and doom and self-medication!
would like to get Kashew's opinion judging from the rest of his text.

Tony M May 23, 2010:

@ Stephanie I don't think 'black-out' has any direct connection with the colour, I think it's more about 'blacking- out', i.e. becoming unconscious as a result of drinkng too much

Tony M May 23, 2010:

@ X2010 From the way I've heard this expression used in everyday parlance, I don't think there's any specific asscoiation with depression, a 'black mood', etc.

Stephanie Ezrol May 23, 2010:

there is "black-out drunk," but I'm not sure if that is the same meaning. SEE http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=black out dru... for a few examples, and also wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(alcohol-related_amnes... and 80,000 some odd other if you google it.

X2010 May 23, 2010:

can't think of a colour equivalent, unless you consider something like in a "dark drunken stupor" or in the "throes of drunkeness"; here I'd say reference is made to a dark, distressful, dour state of inebriety, not to a state of merry exuberance.

Tony M May 23, 2010:

Interesting! FR seems to use colours like gris and noir, and even German has ,blau wie eine Nonne' — but I can't think of anything similar at all in EN — unless you could indirectly count 'green' (isn't that the colour of newts...?) — or 'kaleidoscope' (as in vomit!)