Feb 1, 2003 12:56
21 yrs ago
Russian term

выступать в спорткомплексе

Russian to English Other
...к примеру, Стинг, когда приезжал в Москву, выступал в спорткомплексе "Олимпийский". Однако 'Sting performed at Olimpiyski sports (or fitness) center' sounds stupid, IMHO. Как поступить? Оставить просто "Олимпийский", потому что он всё равно в Москве один?..

Discussion

Kirill Semenov (X) Feb 1, 2003:
To Oleg & Nikita: see my latest note pls. :)
Nikita Kobrin Feb 1, 2003:
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Kirill Semenov (X) Feb 1, 2003:
Zmejka, seems its OK to play at a sports center. See my note pls.
Non-ProZ.com Feb 1, 2003:
Jack, it's not the word 'performed' that sounds stupid to me it's the fact that the performance was held at a sports center. :)
Non-ProZ.com Feb 1, 2003:
Kirill, I've been on that site, but the translation there really leaves much to be desired, I think...

Proposed translations

+4
8 mins
Selected

performed...

It doesn't sound stupid to me.

Ref. 1:
Rock On The Net: Sting
... Sting performed at a benefit concert in Boston for Walden Woods. ... Sting performed
on The Today Show as the last Summer Concert Series feature of the season. ...

BBC Online - Later - Sting
... Sting performed: Walking On The Moon taken from his appearance on Later...
in 1994. To find out more about the other bands on the show, click below. ...

Peer comment(s):

agree Mark Vaintroub
2 hrs
agree Oleg Pashuk (X) : performed at Olympiyskiy Sports Center
2 hrs
Thank you.
agree GaryG
2 hrs
agree JoeYeckley (X) : "Playing" has some special meaning in connection with Vegas, but "concert" collocates better with "perform."
9 days
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ."
+2
4 mins

Sting Played at the Olimpiyski Sports Center in Moscow

.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 13:06:57 (GMT)
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Ну, может \"Правда\" авторитетнее будет :)

STING\'S CONCERT TO TAKE PLACE IN MOSCOW
A concert of famous musician and singer Sting will take place at the Olimpiysky sports complex Monday as part of the singer\'s world tour.

Sports complex, выходит.

http://english.pravda.ru/culture/2001/06/07/7109.html



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Note added at 2003-02-01 13:09:05 (GMT)
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ну и еще я за performed

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Note added at 2003-02-01 13:53:50 (GMT)
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Похоже, нашлось подтверждение того что концерт в спорткомплексе -- не редкость. Еще и с маленькой занятной деталью, поскольку \"Олимпийский\", как мне известно, именно крытый стадион:


Rock sensation 3 Doors Down was the headliner for Stony Brook\'s first concert in 10 years Monday night at the Stony Brook Indoor Sports Complex.

http://goseawolves.ocsn.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/031401a...


Это я просто поискал в Гугле \"sports complex\"+concert и взял первое, что попалось. :)


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Note added at 2003-02-01 14:02:42 (GMT)
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To Nikita: С чего Вы вдруг решили, что я \"осуждаю\" или вообще о чем-то \"сужу\"? Мне про \"Олимпийский\" известно как раз только то, что там есть крытый стадион. И я спросил, это комплекс сооружений или только стадион, что тут обидного?
Мне действительно интересно было.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 14:25:52 (GMT)
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To Nikita:

Я понял вопрос Аскера так: не глупо ли звучит выражение \"to perform at a sports center\"? В этом направлении и копался.

Если бы вопрос звучал: \"как лучше -- sports center или stadium?\", я бы без раздумий подтвердил бы stadium (хотя сейчас решил бы, что можно и так и так). Вот и вся причина neutral. Это ведь не disagree.



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Note added at 2003-02-01 16:43:32 (GMT)
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Agree Nikita: Вот эти тонкости (в данном случае -- то, как принято в среде музыкантов) часто очень даже matters.

Один мой знакомый, меломан со стажем и очень придирчивый ценитель русского языка, попрекнул как-то блестящий перевод Германа Гессе (перевод С. Апта, действительно потрясающий переводчик) одной-единственной оплошностью -- там-де, саксофонист \"играл на трубе\", хотя любой человек, знакомый с жаргоном тусовки, сказал бы: \"на дудке\".

Такие моменты обогащают очень, но я вам обоим (Никита и Олег) предложил бы не ссориться из-за них, а жить дружно.
Сегодня Никита полезные тонкости даст, завтра Олег -- это всем нам на пользу. :) Не ругайтесь, ребята :)
Peer comment(s):

agree Oleg Pashuk (X) : played? What did he play?
2 hrs
"Солдат, не спрашивай" ;) Я написал, что предпочитаю performed :) И спасибо, конечно :)
agree Libero_Lang_Lab : oleg - vam pridyetsya sovershit' vashe ponimanie glagolya "to play"....
4 hrs
спасибо, Дэн. Хотя глаголы тут не главное :)
Something went wrong...
4 mins

played (at) the....

he played (at) the Olympic Complex

or appeared at....

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Note added at 2003-02-01 13:01:31 (GMT)
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Moscow\'s Olympic Complex

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Note added at 2003-02-01 13:35:30 (GMT)
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or maybe stadium is better.

Sting played (at) the Moscow Olympic Stadium....
Peer comment(s):

neutral Nikita Kobrin : Dan, I disagree w/ "Olympic". "Olimpiysky" is a proper name and as such shouldn't be translated. I know that it's possible to find on the Web smth like "Moscow Russia, Olympic Hall", but это не есть карашо...:-)
1 hr
a ya s vami ne soglasen. est 'proper names' i est 'proper names' - i eto otnositsya k vtoroi kategorii ;-)
neutral Oleg Pashuk (X) : Sorry Dan but - played? What did he play?
2 hrs
sorry Oleg - but that's idiomatic English, whether you like it or not....
Something went wrong...
+1
13 mins

played at (the) Olimpiysky (sports complex)

.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 13:23:19 (GMT)
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А еще лучше так:

Olimpiyski stadium

Ведь фактически, спорткомплекс \"Олимпийский\" - это большой стадион, как \"Уэмбли\" в Лондоне. Кого из англоязычных интересут всякие наши бюрократические \"украшаловки\" в названиях: \"спорткомплекс\" вместо \"стадиона\", \"оздоровительный центр\" вместо \"бани\" и т.д.?

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Note added at 2003-02-01 13:37:02 (GMT)
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Вот пример:

the Queen / Makhona Tsohle Band combination played for the ... Mandela Birthday Concert at WEMBLY STADIUM in ...
elvispelvis.com/simonmahlathini.htm

А, между прочим, официальное название этой площадки - Wembly Arena.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 14:18:50 (GMT)
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Кириллу:

Цитата: \"С чего Вы вдруг решили, что я \"осуждаю\" или вообще о чем-то \"сужу\"?\"

Значит я вас неверно понял: я решил, что вы \"осуждаете\" только потому, что вы поставили \"neutral\".

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Note added at 2003-02-01 16:37:29 (GMT)
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Олегу:

Цитата: «neutral Oleg Pashuk: played? What did he play?»

Олег, спросите какого-нибудь морского волка о том, например, куда он плавал в этом году. Он обидится и скажет что-то типа: «ПЛАВАЕТ говно, а моряки ХОДЯТ». Так и с музыкантами – они ИГРАЮТ (PLAY), даже если поют при этом.

Вот вам пример с ОФИЦИАЛЬНОГО сайта Стинга:

Sting - official web site - The Live Archive - Venue: Wolf ...
... Other selections STING PLAYED included the soothing Fields of Gold from
Ten Summoner\'s Tales and the swinging Englishman in New York. ...
www.sting.com/tour/re070896.html


А вот еще несколко примеров с западных сайтов (и таких примеров я вам могу привести ТЫСЯЧИ):

Sting concert at TECO takes a while to reach a boil
... as the opening act. But when STING PLAYED THE ARENA Saturday night,
it took a while for the music to reach a boil. Sophie B. hit ...
www.naplesnews.com/01/01/neapolitan/d527661a.htm

... There was approx 150 fans in the room for the recording, and STING PLAYED 10
songs, all which are supposed to appear on the broadcast later this month. ...
www.stingus.net/concerts/concert051101.htm

... So STING PLAYED Fragile for me, and that style of South American,
Brazilian guitar playing is something that I was brought up on. ...
www.dominicmiller.com/discogr.html

... The crowd was on their feet for most of the show, dancing as STING PLAYED \"Every
little thing she does is magic\" or singing along call & response style for ...
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3996/s080500.htm

... Sting played both jazz and progressive rock in his youth. ... The 1994 collection,
Fields of Gold: The Best of STING, PLAYED directly to that new audience. ...
www.walmart.com/catalog/ product.gsp?product_id=1975428&cat=14542&type=4&dept=4104&path=0%...

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Note added at 2003-02-01 21:51:05 (GMT)
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Кирилл,

Да мы не ссоримся, это мы так ДИСКУТИРУЕМ.


Олег,

Ну вот, вы же согласны, что моряки не ПЛАВАЮТ, а ХОДЯТ, так согласитесь, что о музыкантах лучше говорить ИГРАЮТ, а не ВЫСТУПАЮТ: пока вы там по морям ХОДИЛИ, я тусовался с музыкантами и писал о них и как в этой среде выражаются знаю прекрасно из личного опыта.

Впрочем, все еще зависит от того, что именно Змейка переводит: если это какой-то академический материал, тогда лучше \"perform\".
Peer comment(s):

neutral Kirill Semenov (X) : А там что, только стадион и никаких залов? Я просто не знаю, не доводилось бывать.
17 mins
Ваша ремарка мне напоминает историю с Пастернаком: "Я не читал, но осуждаю." Вы сначала побывайте, а потом судите: там много, чего есть, но самое главное - это огромный стадион. Я бывал там раз 10: на концертах Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Яна Гиллана, etc.
neutral Libero_Lang_Lab : the article is not optional
26 mins
Dan, I dare to disagree: there're tons of examples w/ "at Wembly Stadium". Why should it be different w/ "at Olimpiyski stadium"?
neutral Oleg Pashuk (X) : played? What did he play?
2 hrs
Oh, my God!!! Oleg, don't you know that Sting not only sings, he also PLAYS BASS GUITAR. Да и вооще, "играть" в наших кругах - это синоним "выступать" (музыканты, так, обычно не говорят). Пример: "Мы ОТЫГРАЛИ 3 вечера в этом клубе."
agree Simon Geoghegan : Agree with Dan about the definite article. You have to use it in this context.
5 hrs
Well, two natives against one poor alien... Surrender!
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs

Sting performed at Olympiyskiy Sports Center

Your version is fine. Only I would spell OlYmpiysiY.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 16:06:10 (GMT)
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But, it is not a big deal.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 16:10:32 (GMT)
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There is nothing wrong with Sports Center either, or even Stadium - Bands often perform in such places where many people can attend the concert.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 16:20:12 (GMT)
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To Nikita - I know that he sings and \"plays gitar.\" But - when you use just the term \"plays,\" it does not sound right (children play, football players play, etc.). I think, the better term here is \"perform\" - after all, it is in category of \"performing art\"

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Note added at 2003-02-01 16:23:16 (GMT)
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\"Играть\" is mayby OK in Russian, but to translate it literally into English... I don\'t think so.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 17:35:19 (GMT)
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To Nikita:
And what does your «ПЛАВАЕТ говно, а моряки ХОДЯТ» has to do with anything? I know this expression, I have been at sea (on and off) for almost 40 years already, 10 of them out of Kaliningrad. I used to be your neighbor:)


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Note added at 2003-02-01 18:44:49 (GMT)
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GUitar - sorry

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Note added at 2003-02-01 19:28:28 (GMT)
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OK, Sting performed at THE Olympiyskiy Sports Center

Peer comment(s):

neutral Kirill Semenov (X) : Олег, Аскер ясно дал понять, что проблема не в performed vs. played, а в допустимости sports center. :)
26 mins
I know that ! I was responding to Nikita' remark to my "neutral" above.
neutral Nikita Kobrin : Олег: «ПЛАВАЕТ говно, а моряки ХОДЯТ». См. выше.
34 mins
Whatever. I still think that "Performed" is much better than "Played"
neutral Simon Geoghegan : You definitely need that pesky definite article here! : )
2 hrs
Is that all?:)
agree annakh
2 days 4 hrs
thank you
agree JoeYeckley (X) : The article is a tough call here, but I favor dropping it and capitalizing the place name. Case in point: if I build a stadium in THE North Forest and then name it North Forest Stadium, the article could then be dropped.
9 days
thank you
Something went wrong...
+2
4 hrs

to Nikita

yes - it's okay to say he played Wembley Stadium but NOT okay to say he played Olympic (Olympiisky if you insist - but it sounds worse) Stadium. Olympic is governed by an article - because it could be another olympic stadium - eg. the Sydney Olympic Stadium. There is only one Wembley and one Wembley Stadium, hence it does not need qualifying by an article. Like it or not - that is the case. It is all quite logical. There endeth the advanced grammar lesson.

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Note added at 2003-02-01 17:35:46 (GMT)
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zmeika - just to help you climb out of this snake pit - performed is fine, played (at) is fine, and appeared at is also fine. you can\'t go wrong!!!

to those who doubt the appropriateness of played in this context i recommend a copy of longmans advanced english grammar. for anyone who cannot find a copy, i will be pleased to offer one-on-one tuition over the net, in the various uses of play as a transitive verb. my prices are very reasonable.
Peer comment(s):

agree Simon Geoghegan : As a native speaker I have to agree.
1 hr
as a native speaker, i value your opinion
agree Nikita Kobrin : Dan, that's why I'm against the translation of Olimpiysky. There's only one Olimpiysky Stadium (like Wembley Stadium) and "hence it does not need qualifying by an article".
4 hrs
you can argue until you're blue in the face Nikita - but I fail to see the logic. Olympiisky means Olympic, it is not a 'proper adjective' in itself. You can carry on telling me what is correct English and as a native speaker I will continue to ignore it.
Something went wrong...
9 days

What a heated discussion! I like it.

The truth does not come easy:)
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