This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Oct 10, 2009 14:08
14 yrs ago
3 viewers *
German term
Muckefuck
German to English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
idioms
(This is not a joke, but maybe it will wake people up on a Saturday morning...)
I know it means "ersatz coffee, weak coffee." But I am checking a translation, in which the translator used the word "ersatz," alone. I find this so colorless compared to the German, that I wonder if someone can think of a better idea. Prize offered: one lukewarm cup of Muckefuck.
context:
Diese Parteien werden bei der nächsten Wahl in demselben Zustand sein wie jetzt die SPD, die ihre Selbstdemontage als grüner Muckefuck offensichtlich auch nach der Wahl noch verstärken will.
I know it means "ersatz coffee, weak coffee." But I am checking a translation, in which the translator used the word "ersatz," alone. I find this so colorless compared to the German, that I wonder if someone can think of a better idea. Prize offered: one lukewarm cup of Muckefuck.
context:
Diese Parteien werden bei der nächsten Wahl in demselben Zustand sein wie jetzt die SPD, die ihre Selbstdemontage als grüner Muckefuck offensichtlich auch nach der Wahl noch verstärken will.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
51 mins
green lightweight
as a green lightweight
as a green nobody
as a green underdog
as a green apple-shiner
I'd get away from the literal translation though have to admit that the word "green" should be used
as a green nobody
as a green underdog
as a green apple-shiner
I'd get away from the literal translation though have to admit that the word "green" should be used
1 hr
acorn coffee (substitute)
If you moved the "green" reference to the "Demontage" you would have more scope for the word for "Muckefuck". I prefer acorn coffee because it emphasises the substitute quality as well as the corn origin and it provides a suitably "eco" countrified image
Example sentence:
As a full-blown eco nerd, Jürgen eschewed genuine coffee which had to be imported from foreign lands, preferring the
politically correct home-grown acorn coffee substitute.
1 hr
false coffee/coffee substitute
I think it should have something to do with coffee - see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muckefuck (Mocca faux (französisch für falscher Kaffee) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_substitute
decaffeinated or anything that implies the presence or previous presence of caffeine should be avoided.
decaffeinated or anything that implies the presence or previous presence of caffeine should be avoided.
+2
1 hr
coffee substitute
I would either keep the word Muckefuck or keep it simple with coffee substitute
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Erich Friese
: ...there is no point in looking for a linguistic equivalent to ...MF....it simply is Kaffeersatz or....coffee substitute.....some of the other terms offered are simply...silly...I would actually use 'Muckefuck' and add in brackets (coffee sustitute)
11 hrs
|
thank you
|
|
agree |
Erika Berrai-Flynn
: http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewWrongentry.php?idThread=40087&...
1 day 1 hr
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thank you
|
1 hr
Chickory
Muckefuck is traditionally ersatz coffee, or any number of variations. decaf and instant are not the same thing. It is made with grains instead of coffee, and therefore has a number of regional names in English.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-10 15:31:48 GMT)
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sorry. didn't see the sentence. Just wanted to clear up what muckafuck is. Basically, I would find something regional that had to do with what they ate or drank during the depression, as Muckafuck is sort of a post-war depression era substitution for the real thing.
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-10 15:31:48 GMT)
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sorry. didn't see the sentence. Just wanted to clear up what muckafuck is. Basically, I would find something regional that had to do with what they ate or drank during the depression, as Muckafuck is sort of a post-war depression era substitution for the real thing.
Note from asker:
But how would you fit this into the translation of the sentence? |
1 hr
substitute
"Muckefuck" a.k.a. "Ersatzkaffee"/"Kaffee-Ersatz" is properly translated by "substitute coffee" (as opposed to "decaffeinated").
Please see reference entry I provided.
Please see reference entry I provided.
-1
2 hrs
'Lidl Cafe Lite'
As you have posted this under English 'idioms, and are not looking for a literal translation
or 'AldisCafeLite'
-I think both stores are pretty much all over Europe (including the UK), but if this is for a US client, Henry's suggestion works better?
or 'AldisCafeLite'
-I think both stores are pretty much all over Europe (including the UK), but if this is for a US client, Henry's suggestion works better?
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Erika Berrai-Flynn
: Was hat denn Lidl/ Aldi mit Muckefuck zu tun?
1 day 2 hrs
|
+6
2 hrs
sham Greenery/pseudo Greenness/watered down greens
O.K., it need have nothing to do with coffee, whether real or otherwise. The source term was a bit misleading it should have been "grüner Muckefuck". The answer must include Green-ness (I wd use a capital just to make the pun clear) and the inferior or pseudo or sham aspect of Ersatz /faux.
What is the translation for the rest of the sentence?
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-10-10 17:03:16 GMT)
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I withdraw my first idea!
What is the translation for the rest of the sentence?
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-10-10 17:03:16 GMT)
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I withdraw my first idea!
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Thomas Pfann
: Yes, I think we need to get away from the 'coffee' (no matter how real or unreal) idea. Something with 'watered-down' might fit well. Genau daran denke ich nämlich, wenn ich 'Muckefuck' höre - eine wässrige, schwache, braune Brühe.
20 mins
|
Heh, thanks, Thomas Was in Woking recently myself
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agree |
Joel Schaefer
: Brava, Diana, we're on the right track now. Maybe "pseudo-Greens"?
34 mins
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Thanks, Joel. That's why I asked for the syntax of the sentence
|
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agree |
Johanna Timm, PhD
: wannabe Greens?
9 hrs
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Thanks for agreeing, Johanna, or is this a new suggestion of your own?
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agree |
sappho
14 hrs
|
Thanks for agreeing with me!
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agree |
Darin Fitzpatrick
: In order, I like "ersatz" (the original translation), "watered-down", and "pseudo-".
1 day 19 hrs
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Thanks, Darin, I wonder how on earth our asker Susan is going to reconcile her wishes with the various possibilities offered !
|
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agree |
Alexandra Collins
: definitly goes the right direction! hellgrüne Brühe - light Greens
5 days
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Thanks for your support, Alexandra
|
+3
8 hrs
green swill
to give just one more suggestion...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Ingrid Moore
21 hrs
|
Thanks, Ingrid!
|
|
agree |
Barbara Wiebking
1 day 10 hrs
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Thank you, kriddl!
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agree |
Anton Popescu
: adds the needed note of slang
1 day 12 hrs
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Thanks, translexIQ!
|
Reference comments
24 mins
Reference:
Folger's instant decaf
The terrible truth is that I am a coffee addict. I recently had my suspicions confirmed when I took and online quiz. (See below) My years I'd worked the graveyard shift as a baker had taken their toll.
Now, it's one thing to be a coffee maven, but it's a terrible thing to lose your mind to caffeine.
The signs become clearer when, instead of grinding selected Chiapas beans, you start drinking Nescafé Clásico. Not for nothing is it referred to as "No es café". That stuff used to taste like the condensations of a Mexico City bus' exhaust. Now, it doesn't...taste...so..bad.
I don't drink it for the taste but for the kick-start to my day.
After one mug, I now switch to decaf. Do any of you coffee snobs know that there's a decent decaf with the Clásico label? I'll bet not.
We were introduced to this at the Restaurant del Arcángel, near Tzurumútaro. They have an espresso machine, but at 9:30 in the morning, the only coffee available was Clásico Descafeinado and a tea kettle of boiling water.
Accept no substitutes. Folger's Instant Decaf tastes bad. Very bad.
Real coffee, good coffee, is available for you mavens who scorn instant.
You can hardly get around Pátzcuaro's Centro without bumping into a cafetería. I might go so far as to say that Pátzcuaro Centro is two plazas defined by coffeehouses.
The sight of the Hygeia ice cream cartons of the Palomares coffeehouse fills me with nostalgia, but my Mundo de Café Centro revolves around the La Surtidora, on the Plaza Grande; or at the Gran Hotel, on the Plaza Chica. Those are favorite gringo aggregation social loci.
When I'm on my own, I sometimes get a café cortado at Lilian's Coffee, a tiny place niched into the Hotel Los Escudos, which has its own coffee shop. (We drank there once. Once only.) Lilian's is excellent, maybe a bit over priced, although the coffee is served in a paper cup. They also sell whole bean and ground coffee, but it's prepackaged, I think. I also like having choices of different types of beans, even though I almost always buy the same kind.
La Surtidora has the advantage that you can buy a variety of beans. (They also sell puros (cigars), both marcas nacionales y Habanos. However, that's another story for another day. One bad habit is enough for now. La Surtidora serves a deep cup. It's good, with the occasional trace of grounds to remind you that it's the real stuff.
If you are in Uruapan or Quiroga, you can buy excellent coffee at Café Tradicional Uruapan. The coffee at Café La Lucha is ok, but to me, it lacks that deep roasted flavor I prefer. Their drinking chocolate tablets are very good. Buy some to take home. The aroma alone is heavenly.
In Morelia, Café Europa has very good coffee. (Just not at their Wal-Mart Super Center outlet.)
There are several branches. There's a big café on Avenida Madero, but I haven't tried it. We usually bought coffee beans at a small Europa outlet on Humboldt, near the Casa de las Artesanías. (I haven't been there recently, so I'm not sure it's there.) Another café with food is the Europa on Avenida Enrique Ramírez, just beyond the Superama. They have especially nice service there.
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Note added at 34 mins (2009-10-10 14:43:09 GMT)
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I'm in Berlin.
Now, it's one thing to be a coffee maven, but it's a terrible thing to lose your mind to caffeine.
The signs become clearer when, instead of grinding selected Chiapas beans, you start drinking Nescafé Clásico. Not for nothing is it referred to as "No es café". That stuff used to taste like the condensations of a Mexico City bus' exhaust. Now, it doesn't...taste...so..bad.
I don't drink it for the taste but for the kick-start to my day.
After one mug, I now switch to decaf. Do any of you coffee snobs know that there's a decent decaf with the Clásico label? I'll bet not.
We were introduced to this at the Restaurant del Arcángel, near Tzurumútaro. They have an espresso machine, but at 9:30 in the morning, the only coffee available was Clásico Descafeinado and a tea kettle of boiling water.
Accept no substitutes. Folger's Instant Decaf tastes bad. Very bad.
Real coffee, good coffee, is available for you mavens who scorn instant.
You can hardly get around Pátzcuaro's Centro without bumping into a cafetería. I might go so far as to say that Pátzcuaro Centro is two plazas defined by coffeehouses.
The sight of the Hygeia ice cream cartons of the Palomares coffeehouse fills me with nostalgia, but my Mundo de Café Centro revolves around the La Surtidora, on the Plaza Grande; or at the Gran Hotel, on the Plaza Chica. Those are favorite gringo aggregation social loci.
When I'm on my own, I sometimes get a café cortado at Lilian's Coffee, a tiny place niched into the Hotel Los Escudos, which has its own coffee shop. (We drank there once. Once only.) Lilian's is excellent, maybe a bit over priced, although the coffee is served in a paper cup. They also sell whole bean and ground coffee, but it's prepackaged, I think. I also like having choices of different types of beans, even though I almost always buy the same kind.
La Surtidora has the advantage that you can buy a variety of beans. (They also sell puros (cigars), both marcas nacionales y Habanos. However, that's another story for another day. One bad habit is enough for now. La Surtidora serves a deep cup. It's good, with the occasional trace of grounds to remind you that it's the real stuff.
If you are in Uruapan or Quiroga, you can buy excellent coffee at Café Tradicional Uruapan. The coffee at Café La Lucha is ok, but to me, it lacks that deep roasted flavor I prefer. Their drinking chocolate tablets are very good. Buy some to take home. The aroma alone is heavenly.
In Morelia, Café Europa has very good coffee. (Just not at their Wal-Mart Super Center outlet.)
There are several branches. There's a big café on Avenida Madero, but I haven't tried it. We usually bought coffee beans at a small Europa outlet on Humboldt, near the Casa de las Artesanías. (I haven't been there recently, so I'm not sure it's there.) Another café with food is the Europa on Avenida Enrique Ramírez, just beyond the Superama. They have especially nice service there.
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Note added at 34 mins (2009-10-10 14:43:09 GMT)
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I'm in Berlin.
Note from asker:
Good morning, Henry. I can see you are already wide-awake. (Maybe if no one comes up with something better, I'll go with "watered-down.") |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral |
Blaess
: Muckefuck is not decaffeinated coffee - there is just no caffeine in by nature.// well, at least not a misleading one
21 mins
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Is the point here to provide a literal 1 to 1 translation of Muckefuck?
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neutral |
Monika Elisabeth Sieger
: To my knowledge "Muckefuck" is made from a plant named Zichorie in German! No coffee at all! Good for your rabbit in summer instead of water!
33 mins
|
neutral |
Dr Lofthouse
: 'chicory' coffee in the UK has the brand name 'Camp' - but if you translate that to 'Lager', it all becomes a little confusing beverage -wise:)
44 mins
|
agree |
Annett Kottek (X)
: I think 'instant decaf' gets the sneering tone just right. Not only is it coffee without caffeine, but it's instant [i.e. ‘fast-food’] too! (What’s the point?!)
4 hrs
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44 mins
Reference:
disagree with "watered-down"
that would be mistaken for diluted coffee - but "Muckefuck" has nothing in common with coffee - neither caffeine nor taste.
see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muckefuck plus English site
see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muckefuck plus English site
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Monika Elisabeth Sieger
12 mins
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Danke!
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neutral |
Annett Kottek (X)
: Actually, my dad uses ‘Muckefuck’ figuratively to insult my coffee; and indeed the Duden confirms that the term describes not only ‘coffee substitute’ but also ‘dünne[n], schlechte[n] Kaffee’.
4 hrs
|
56 mins
Reference:
lol:)
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2007091312031...
" it's a coffee substitute which tastes remotely similar to coffee, but doesn't have any caffeine. The english translation would be grain coffee.
brand = Caro Kaffee
a possible origin - the expression may have come from the french words 'mocca faux' - fake coffee (and just couldn't be pronounced properly in German)..." http://www.economy-point.org/g/grain-cof…
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-10 15:15:41 GMT)
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the word you choose really depend on whether the rest of the article is a dig at their 'Green' (environmental ) agenda being watered-down though
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-10 15:29:54 GMT)
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If its a dig at the economy, you could try a 'cheap' brand of UK coffee ' 'Aldis Decaf' or 'Lidl CafeLite'?
" it's a coffee substitute which tastes remotely similar to coffee, but doesn't have any caffeine. The english translation would be grain coffee.
brand = Caro Kaffee
a possible origin - the expression may have come from the french words 'mocca faux' - fake coffee (and just couldn't be pronounced properly in German)..." http://www.economy-point.org/g/grain-cof…
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-10 15:15:41 GMT)
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the word you choose really depend on whether the rest of the article is a dig at their 'Green' (environmental ) agenda being watered-down though
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-10 15:29:54 GMT)
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If its a dig at the economy, you could try a 'cheap' brand of UK coffee ' 'Aldis Decaf' or 'Lidl CafeLite'?
Note from asker:
No, it's just a passing reference. The rest of the article is on how the financial crisis is going to discredit the parties that won the election based on false promises and covering up the statistics of what was really going on in the economy. |
1 hr
Reference:
substitute
Ersatzkaffee (a.k.a. Kaffee-Ersatz, Muckefuck, Zikorienkaffee, Malzkafee, and so on, and so forth -- it has a dozen different names) has nothing in common with "normal coffee", be it even decaffeinated (which would be "entkoffeinierter Kaffee").
It refers to a coffee-like liquid that indeed contains no caffeine. But that's due to its composition, which -- also typically -- excludes coffee (hence the "ersatz" part). It's usually made out of some mix containing mainly malt, chicory, barley (all roasted), but the full list of possible ingredients is limited only by imagination.
Also, it has nothing in common with decaffeinated coffee, except the lack of caffeine. Decaffeinated coffee / decaf ("Entkoffeinierter Kaffee") is "normal" coffee that got its caffeine extracted in some way (the CO2 procedure is very common lately, as it seems). Most traditional coffee producers also make a decaf version of their brands, which tastes as good (or as bad :D) as the normal one.
It's not "watered-down" coffee, it's not "decaf" -- whether instant or not. It's not coffee, period.
Given that, the horrible taste it has for a coffee drinker, as Henry highlighted, is easy explained... I share his view since early childhood, when my granny tried to make me drink it.
As reference, I need not go further than Wikipedia -- there's plenty of links on the two pages.
Leaving aside coffee itself, and returning to the obvious metaphorical way in which Muckefuck was used in context: "substitute" I think would be appropriate on several levels.
They talk about parties that are supposed to undergo "Selbstdemontage als grüner Muckefuck". That probably translates into the idea that those parties only _pose_ as greens (ecologists), are therefore substitute-greens, and are supposed to expose themselves as not really being it.
It might also be a reference to the German party "Die Grünen", whereas the parties treated in the text are faux-Greens, trying to substitute the Greens (the etymological origin of Muckefucke is deemed to be the French "mocca faux" -- false coffee).
It refers to a coffee-like liquid that indeed contains no caffeine. But that's due to its composition, which -- also typically -- excludes coffee (hence the "ersatz" part). It's usually made out of some mix containing mainly malt, chicory, barley (all roasted), but the full list of possible ingredients is limited only by imagination.
Also, it has nothing in common with decaffeinated coffee, except the lack of caffeine. Decaffeinated coffee / decaf ("Entkoffeinierter Kaffee") is "normal" coffee that got its caffeine extracted in some way (the CO2 procedure is very common lately, as it seems). Most traditional coffee producers also make a decaf version of their brands, which tastes as good (or as bad :D) as the normal one.
It's not "watered-down" coffee, it's not "decaf" -- whether instant or not. It's not coffee, period.
Given that, the horrible taste it has for a coffee drinker, as Henry highlighted, is easy explained... I share his view since early childhood, when my granny tried to make me drink it.
As reference, I need not go further than Wikipedia -- there's plenty of links on the two pages.
Leaving aside coffee itself, and returning to the obvious metaphorical way in which Muckefuck was used in context: "substitute" I think would be appropriate on several levels.
They talk about parties that are supposed to undergo "Selbstdemontage als grüner Muckefuck". That probably translates into the idea that those parties only _pose_ as greens (ecologists), are therefore substitute-greens, and are supposed to expose themselves as not really being it.
It might also be a reference to the German party "Die Grünen", whereas the parties treated in the text are faux-Greens, trying to substitute the Greens (the etymological origin of Muckefucke is deemed to be the French "mocca faux" -- false coffee).
Discussion
P.S. - Diana, if you send me your email address privately, I will deliver. Your profile has no contact line.
I do see your quandry and that you decided that in this case the term was just not translateable and you couldn't award any points. I certainly enjoyed the discussion, anyway.. But as my second suggestion got to the top of the ratings with five peer votes I feel justified in claiming the prize of "one cup of lukewarm Muckefuck" you offered.
How are you going to send it to me in Germany, though??
Any reference to coffee substitutes and deprivation is not likely to have any traction with US readers. If you think that humor is needed, I'd suggest a reference to "soy milk" or something like that.
Our problem now is that polyglott's "murkiness" is a negative term for the water in a stream or pond, whereas Muckefuck is negative because it is NOT murky enough compared to proper coffee (eine dünne Plempe). The only way I can envisage any liquid metapher being used is by saying "watered down". I am still in two minds as to whether the word "party" need be used yet again.
It may not be quite as colourful as Muckefuck is in German but "ersatz" in English gives a pretty strong thumbs-down to what is being described. If you use lower case "green" you can play on the word Green as in Green Party and "green" as in "environmentally conscious" in a general way.
Thanks for posting the translation as it now stands. I reckon "self-degredation into pseudo-Greenness" would suffice, without the text using the word "party" for the third time in the sentence
By the next elections, these parties will be in the same
shape as the SPD is now, a party which, even after the elections,
intends to hasten its self-degradation into an ersatz green
party.