Jul 18, 2008 19:39
16 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Latin term
Sapiens dominabitur astris
Latin to English
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General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Is "Sapiens dominabitur astris" even correct/grammatical Latin? I hear that it is a phrase used by a mystical society (and the exact phrase gets 4000 or so hits on Google), but a proofreader who knows Latin says it's incorrect and should be "Sapientes dominabuntur astris" (to mean "The wise shall have dominion over the stars").
My question: Which one is right? And if the first one is wrong, why has no one corrected this mystical group all these years! (That last question I know is rhetorical, really.)
Thanks much in advance.
My question: Which one is right? And if the first one is wrong, why has no one corrected this mystical group all these years! (That last question I know is rhetorical, really.)
Thanks much in advance.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+4
2 hrs
grazy73
Works in field
Selected
The wise man will rule the stars
I think you could translate it in this way too.
In addition, I'm agree with Anders Dalstrom who says both phrases are almost identical.
In addition, I'm agree with Anders Dalstrom who says both phrases are almost identical.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Olga Cartlidge
: I would however put the indefinite article here i.e. A wise / thinking man.
3 mins
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Thank you!
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| agree |
Joseph Brazauskas
1 hr
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Thank you!
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| agree |
matmcv (X)
: Will more accurate than can; agree with Olga re A v. The; sapiens could also be female
3 hrs
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Thank you!
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| agree |
Nicoletta Degli Innocenti
20 hrs
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Thank you!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you for all of your help!! For this situation, I'm using the gender-neutral "person." Not to be PC, it just fits the story I'm working on better. Thanks again!"
-1
9 mins
Gad Kohenov
Israel
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A wise man can rule the stars
Sapiens dominabitur astris. A wise man can rule the stars.
I think this is the correct rendering.
I think this is the correct rendering.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Anders Dalström
: I'd say both phrases are correct/almost identical. The first one is the future third person singular and the second is the future third person plural. That's the only difference between the two. And it's a deponent verb.
6 mins
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Thanks a lot. You are right about the singular/plural.
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| neutral |
Olga Cartlidge
: To be more precise - Where does ''can'' come from ? It seems to be a fairly straightforward use of Ind Futuri. // ...I assumed it was your own translation : - ))
6 mins
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I guess they translated is so as to sound good in English
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| disagree |
Joseph Brazauskas
: As Olga points out, there is no concept of 'can' in the Latin.
1 day 20 hrs
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| disagree |
dolorespark
: No concepts of 'can'?!? Non possum credere!
907 days
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22 hrs
Nicoletta Degli Innocenti
Works in field
Accurate & fast scientific translations
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Works in: English to Italian, Italian to English, Latin to Italian, and 1 more.
The wise man will prevail over stars (influence)
The phrase is correct... although dominor is more commonly used with "in+ablative" or "in+accusative" the sense is clear...
I think all the translations proposed are correct but IMHO "prevail" is somewhat closer: the stars have some influence on our destiny, they have some power, but a wise man can be stronger and overcome this power (IMHO "to rule" in this case does not exactly fit: the wise man does not "rule" the stars, but his own destiny)
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Note added at 22 hrs (2008-07-19 18:12:59 GMT)
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By the way, if you do not like the gender specification, you could say: The wise will prevail/will rule over the stars"
I think all the translations proposed are correct but IMHO "prevail" is somewhat closer: the stars have some influence on our destiny, they have some power, but a wise man can be stronger and overcome this power (IMHO "to rule" in this case does not exactly fit: the wise man does not "rule" the stars, but his own destiny)
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Note added at 22 hrs (2008-07-19 18:12:59 GMT)
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By the way, if you do not like the gender specification, you could say: The wise will prevail/will rule over the stars"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
matmcv (X)
: Not sure Nicoletta, have you seen (e.g. via Googling) references to "Fata regunt reges..."? "The fates rule kings, a wise person will master the stars." I suppose "prevail over" is close...
8 hrs
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Yes I have seen them... probably you are right; I was thinking about something in the line of "Astra inclinant, non necessitant" as common in Middle Ages. As per your citation, the origin is unknown but this does not look like classical Latin
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| neutral |
Joseph Brazauskas
: It found as commonly with inter = acc., the plain abl., the gen., and various object clauses.
22 hrs
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-1
9 hrs
Joseph Brazauskas
United States
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Related KudoZ points
:
36
The wise man will lord it over the stars.
Here the simple future indicative-'dominabitur'-is used with almost concessive force to emphasise something inevitiable, or at least unpleanst
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-07-19 06:53:42 GMT)
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'Dominor' requires a dative of indirect object, even when an accusative seems called for in English; it constitutes, therefore, one of the so-called 'intransitive verbs with transitive force', (i.e., transitive force in the English but not the Latin sense), like 'cunctor' + an acc. in post-clasical Latin.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-07-19 07:00:42 GMT)
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There is no intimaton of 'can', which is not expressed by the accusative without a preposition, and so has no plae in renering tisd nor any other, without
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-07-19 07:05:12 GMT)
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more specific indications, such as temporal adverbs, which latter have begun to yield in the modern speech.
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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2008-07-20 16:36:41 GMT)
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Cicero (Academica, 2.41) says 'Cleanthes, qui quasi maiorum est gentium Stoicus, Zenonis auditor, solem dominari et rerum potiri putat', Virgil (Georgics, 1.153f.) says 'interque nitentia culta//infelix lolium et steriles dominantur avenae', and Ovid (Metamorphoses, 7.552f.) 'pervenit ad miseros damno graviore colonos/pestis et in magnae dominatur moenibus urbis'. It is dubious at best whether the sun, the cosmos, darnel, oats, and a city are "sentient beings", and in all the passages just quoted 'lord it' is a viable rendering; in fact, at least one distinguished translator found it so.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-07-19 06:53:42 GMT)
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'Dominor' requires a dative of indirect object, even when an accusative seems called for in English; it constitutes, therefore, one of the so-called 'intransitive verbs with transitive force', (i.e., transitive force in the English but not the Latin sense), like 'cunctor' + an acc. in post-clasical Latin.
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-07-19 07:00:42 GMT)
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There is no intimaton of 'can', which is not expressed by the accusative without a preposition, and so has no plae in renering tisd nor any other, without
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Note added at 11 hrs (2008-07-19 07:05:12 GMT)
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more specific indications, such as temporal adverbs, which latter have begun to yield in the modern speech.
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Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2008-07-20 16:36:41 GMT)
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Cicero (Academica, 2.41) says 'Cleanthes, qui quasi maiorum est gentium Stoicus, Zenonis auditor, solem dominari et rerum potiri putat', Virgil (Georgics, 1.153f.) says 'interque nitentia culta//infelix lolium et steriles dominantur avenae', and Ovid (Metamorphoses, 7.552f.) 'pervenit ad miseros damno graviore colonos/pestis et in magnae dominatur moenibus urbis'. It is dubious at best whether the sun, the cosmos, darnel, oats, and a city are "sentient beings", and in all the passages just quoted 'lord it' is a viable rendering; in fact, at least one distinguished translator found it so.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
matmcv (X)
: Joseph, you cannot "lord it over" stars, only sentient beings (humans, maybe animals) because it requires petty pride in the subject knowing the object knows it is being lorded over./I don't know what you mean by that.
6 hrs
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The primary meaning of 'dominor' is 'lord it over, be lord and master of'; cf. Lewis & Short s.v. All its secondary meanings derive from this fundamental one./Then Cicero, Ovid, and Virgil must have been poor Latinists. Cf. my note.
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939 days
The wise man will be under the rule of stars
dominabitur is a passive form, so the wise man [also] will be dominated by stars.
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