Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Chinese term or phrase:
Ａ一定要Ｂ
English translation:
doing A requires B
Added to glossary by
Roddy Stegemann
Dec 5, 2006 02:01
17 yrs ago
Chinese term
United States
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Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, Japanese to English, French to English, and 3 more.
洗臉
Non-PRO
Chinese to English
Social Sciences
Linguistics
Grammatical Analysis
Sentence: 張太太對她的兒子說：「洗臉一定要洗得乾浮。」
First Attempt: Ms. Cheung said to her son, "When you wash your face you must do it well."
Question: is the phrase 洗臉 an abbreviation for the phrase 洗臉的時候? If so, is this good Chinese usage? Grammatically speaking it is very difficult to deal with it. If it is common, please provide additional examples.
Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p... for further reference.
As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the sentence, if you find them in error or would like to suggest an improvement.
Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.
First Attempt: Ms. Cheung said to her son, "When you wash your face you must do it well."
Question: is the phrase 洗臉 an abbreviation for the phrase 洗臉的時候? If so, is this good Chinese usage? Grammatically speaking it is very difficult to deal with it. If it is common, please provide additional examples.
Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p... for further reference.
As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the sentence, if you find them in error or would like to suggest an improvement.
Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +1 | wash your face |
pkchan
|
| 3 +1 | IMHO |
franksf
|
Proposed translations
+1
1 day 13 hrs
Selected
wash your face
Due to the "telegraphic" nature of the Chinese language, word omission is very common. In this case, words such as "every time", "whenever", and "you" are missing, yet the implications are there. The whole sentence should be like this: 每當你洗臉的時候. If words like "的時候" are missing, then "洗臉" can indicate the
"time of the action" as well as the "action" itself. In answering the question: Yes, the sentence has been abbreviated. Grammatically, it is correct. It is a "demand" or an "advice". Similar examples: 開車一定要小心，過馬路一定要看清楚，上課一定要留心聽講。All these examples show that "的時候" is omitted. Again, they all indicate the "time' of the actions, and the "actions" themselves.
"time of the action" as well as the "action" itself. In answering the question: Yes, the sentence has been abbreviated. Grammatically, it is correct. It is a "demand" or an "advice". Similar examples: 開車一定要小心，過馬路一定要看清楚，上課一定要留心聽講。All these examples show that "的時候" is omitted. Again, they all indicate the "time' of the actions, and the "actions" themselves.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
wherestip
: agree. >> "洗臉" can indicate the "time of the action" as well as the "action" itself.<< well said.
5 mins
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thanks
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Final Rendering: Ms. Cheung said to her son, "When you wash your face wash it well".
Acknowledgment: Thanks to PK, Franksf, and wherestip for their terrific input. Unfortunately, I find it difficult to lend much credenceto Frank's grammatical analysis in this context and would hope that he refer to my discussion on the matter. Conceptually, his explanation coincided well with PK's and was very helpful.
Certainly, PK's and wherestip's several examples clinched the matter for me, and I am most grateful.
Discussion: Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/part3/III-3b-g.html#s20 for further discussion regarding the context of this question.
My very best from the land of no mountains surrounded by sea on many sides.
"
+1
19 hrs
IMHO
Is the phrase 洗臉 an abbreviation for the phrase 洗臉的時候?
Generally speaking, no. In the context, 洗臉 may be substituted by 洗臉的時候 because 洗臉的時候一定要洗得乾淨 also makes sense in Chinese. The difference between 洗臉一定要洗得乾淨 and 洗臉的時候一定要洗得乾淨 is that the former emphasizes 洗臉 itself as an isolated event while the latter emphasizes the process of 洗臉 and possibly some concurrent event(s) in the same process. Imagine that Ms. Cheung (or Chang or Zhang)'s son kept playing the soap while washing his face and as a result his face was not cleaned right, then more than likely Ms. Cheung would say: 洗臉的時候一定要洗得乾淨 implying that you must concentrate on what you were doing (emphasizing the process). Also imagine that Ms. Cheung's son quit playing the soap and yet still he did not clean his face right, so it is not something that he lost his concentration and failed to get it right, Ms. Cheung would likely say: 洗臉一定要洗得乾淨 (emphasizing the technique :)).
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Note added at 1 day14 hrs (2006-12-06 16:26:52 GMT)
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OK, strictly gramatically, 洗臉 is definitely not an abbreviation for the phrase 洗臉的時候, because "的" in 洗臉的時候 indicates that 時候 is the subject and 洗臉的 is an ajective which qualifies 時候. Let's now ignore the qualifier "洗臉的" and compare the first "洗臉" and the second "時候" and see the miles-apart difference. That is to say, take away the qualifier and compare an orange with an orange or an apple with an apple.
Generally speaking, no. In the context, 洗臉 may be substituted by 洗臉的時候 because 洗臉的時候一定要洗得乾淨 also makes sense in Chinese. The difference between 洗臉一定要洗得乾淨 and 洗臉的時候一定要洗得乾淨 is that the former emphasizes 洗臉 itself as an isolated event while the latter emphasizes the process of 洗臉 and possibly some concurrent event(s) in the same process. Imagine that Ms. Cheung (or Chang or Zhang)'s son kept playing the soap while washing his face and as a result his face was not cleaned right, then more than likely Ms. Cheung would say: 洗臉的時候一定要洗得乾淨 implying that you must concentrate on what you were doing (emphasizing the process). Also imagine that Ms. Cheung's son quit playing the soap and yet still he did not clean his face right, so it is not something that he lost his concentration and failed to get it right, Ms. Cheung would likely say: 洗臉一定要洗得乾淨 (emphasizing the technique :)).
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Note added at 1 day14 hrs (2006-12-06 16:26:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
OK, strictly gramatically, 洗臉 is definitely not an abbreviation for the phrase 洗臉的時候, because "的" in 洗臉的時候 indicates that 時候 is the subject and 洗臉的 is an ajective which qualifies 時候. Let's now ignore the qualifier "洗臉的" and compare the first "洗臉" and the second "時候" and see the miles-apart difference. That is to say, take away the qualifier and compare an orange with an orange or an apple with an apple.
Note from asker:
| You have addressed the conceptual problem well, now what about the grammatical problem. Afterall this was the basis of my question. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
wherestip
: Agree. // Hamo, 洗臉 has a form that's used extensively in the Chinese language. 洗手一定要洗干净. 刮脸要小心一点. 刷牙要经常刷. Some other verb and noun forms: 你吃饭要吃饱、穿衣要穿暖. 你写诗写得真好. 他爬树爬得很快. 他待人忠厚.
16 hrs
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Discussion