Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Chinese term or phrase:
（在）那兒
English translation:
there | over there
Added to glossary by
Roddy Stegemann
Nov 19, 2006 08:00
17 yrs ago
Chinese term
United States
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Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, Japanese to English, French to English, and 3 more.
那兒
Non-PRO
Chinese to English
Social Sciences
Linguistics
Grammatical Analysis
Sentence: 謝先生的兒子寄信給謝先生，叫他買一件大衣給他，因為那兒的天氣很冷。
First Attempt: Mr Sze's son sent his father a letter in which he asked his father to buy him an overcoat because of the cold weather.
Question One: I have translated 那兒 to be the place at which the son wrote his letter. May I assume that the speaker probably resides in the same place as the father -- very distant from the father's son? If this is incorrect, then how do you explain the use of 那兒 as opposed to 這兒?
Question Two: As the phrase 那兒的 appears to serve as an adjective describing the weather, may I assume that the presence of 在 is unnecessary and, in fact, improper in this context? For example, I could well imagine the phrase 在那兒學的學生, but without the verb would 在那兒的 ever occur? This is follow up to the question asked at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1644644.
Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p... for further reference.
As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the sentence, if you find them in error or would like to suggest an improvement.
Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.
First Attempt: Mr Sze's son sent his father a letter in which he asked his father to buy him an overcoat because of the cold weather.
Question One: I have translated 那兒 to be the place at which the son wrote his letter. May I assume that the speaker probably resides in the same place as the father -- very distant from the father's son? If this is incorrect, then how do you explain the use of 那兒 as opposed to 這兒?
Question Two: As the phrase 那兒的 appears to serve as an adjective describing the weather, may I assume that the presence of 在 is unnecessary and, in fact, improper in this context? For example, I could well imagine the phrase 在那兒學的學生, but without the verb would 在那兒的 ever occur? This is follow up to the question asked at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1644644.
Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p... for further reference.
As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the sentence, if you find them in error or would like to suggest an improvement.
Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | there / over there |
wherestip
|
Proposed translations
8 hrs
Selected
there / over there
Q1. Your assumption is correct. The speaker could be in the same area as the father or even in a third location, but not in the same location as the son.
Q2. Correct assumption again. The phrase 那兒的 is an adjective describing the weather, therefore no 在 should be used in front.
Yes, there are times when 在那兒 is used even without a preceding verb:
我在那儿找到一份工作 -- I found a job over there.
我在那儿有几位熟人 -- I have a few connections over there.
他在那儿开办的公司生意很好 -- The business he started there is thriving.
我那儿找到一份工作 -- I found a job over there.
我那儿有几位熟人 -- I have a few connections over there.
他那儿开办的公司生意很好 -- The business he started there is thriving.
As you can see from these examples, again the 在 could be omitted in informal speech. But typically it can't be left out when there is a preceding verb. For instance:
我喜欢在那儿住 -- I like living there.
我打算在那儿教书 -- I plan on teaching there.
Q2. Correct assumption again. The phrase 那兒的 is an adjective describing the weather, therefore no 在 should be used in front.
Yes, there are times when 在那兒 is used even without a preceding verb:
我在那儿找到一份工作 -- I found a job over there.
我在那儿有几位熟人 -- I have a few connections over there.
他在那儿开办的公司生意很好 -- The business he started there is thriving.
我那儿找到一份工作 -- I found a job over there.
我那儿有几位熟人 -- I have a few connections over there.
他那儿开办的公司生意很好 -- The business he started there is thriving.
As you can see from these examples, again the 在 could be omitted in informal speech. But typically it can't be left out when there is a preceding verb. For instance:
我喜欢在那儿住 -- I like living there.
我打算在那儿教书 -- I plan on teaching there.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Final Rendering: Mr Sze's son sent mail to his father in which he asked his father to buy him an overcoat because of the cold.
Acknowledgment: Thanks, wherestip. Since your were the only one to respond, I can respond in second person. I found your comments about the differences in oral and written usage, and the presence and absence of a preceding verb both very helpful.
As always, I would like to thank you for your many useful examples. Sometimes, I have the feeling you are sending me cryptic, or perhaps not so cryptic messages. In any case, it is a fun way to communicate - a kind of elegant online chat with useful grammtical impact for all interested readers.
Discussion: Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/part3/III-3b-g.html#s15 for further discussion regarding the context of this question.
My very best from the land of no mountains surrounded by sea on many sides."
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