Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Chinese term or phrase:
東西價錢 or 東西的價錢 (1/3)
English translation:
both are correct, but here 東西價錢 is preferable
Added to glossary by
Roddy Stegemann
Jun 28, 2006 07:50
18 yrs ago
Chinese term
United States
Search HKLNA!
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, Japanese to English, French to English, and 3 more.
東西價錢 or 東西的價錢 (1/3)
Non-PRO
Chinese to English
Science
Education / Pedagogy
Grammatical Analysis
Sentence: 那個鋪子賣的東西價錢很公道，價目單寫多少便賣多少，不用講價的。
1st Attempt: The prices in that store are very reasonable. You pay what is written on the tag. There is no need to barter.
Question 1/3: A somewhat literal translation of the phrase 那個鋪子賣的東西價錢 would be "the price of goods sold in that store". In short, putting aside my own stylistic abbreviation, I have translated the phrase 東西價錢, as if it were written 東西的價錢. Is there a general rule of thumb in Chinese about when to insert the character 的 and when to leave it out?
Question 2/3: The syntax of the phrase 價目單寫多少便賣多少 appears to be of a general pattern similar to Ａ多少便Ｂ多少. Can you think of other Chinese phrases that might fit this pattern?
Question 3/3: What is the meaning of 用 in this sentence. It certainly is not "use". Does it mean the same as 要?
As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the sentence, as well.
http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p...
Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.
1st Attempt: The prices in that store are very reasonable. You pay what is written on the tag. There is no need to barter.
Question 1/3: A somewhat literal translation of the phrase 那個鋪子賣的東西價錢 would be "the price of goods sold in that store". In short, putting aside my own stylistic abbreviation, I have translated the phrase 東西價錢, as if it were written 東西的價錢. Is there a general rule of thumb in Chinese about when to insert the character 的 and when to leave it out?
Question 2/3: The syntax of the phrase 價目單寫多少便賣多少 appears to be of a general pattern similar to Ａ多少便Ｂ多少. Can you think of other Chinese phrases that might fit this pattern?
Question 3/3: What is the meaning of 用 in this sentence. It certainly is not "use". Does it mean the same as 要?
As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the sentence, as well.
http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p...
Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | both are correct, but in this sentence 東西價錢 is preferable |
wherestip
|
Proposed translations
7 hrs
Selected
both are correct, but in this sentence 東西價錢 is preferable
Your translation of the whole sentence is correct.
The general rule of thumb is to avoid using the same character with the same meaning repeatedly, and especially to avoid them being too close together. This also applies to the use of 的
那個鋪子賣的東西的價錢... for example, although grammatically correct, would be considered quite wordy. Leaving out the 2nd 的 would improve the style and flow of the sentence
Of course this rule doesn't apply to usages such as 好好学习， 天天向上 or 人人都说山西好风光
I also agree with Wenjer's analysis above. By chopping up the sentence into small phrases that it's made up of, you can see that the 2nd 的 in question is really not needed.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2006-06-29 04:24:57 GMT)
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Correction:
Sorry, I was a bit too hasty in generalizing the good writing style of not using Chinese words repeatedly in the same sentence. On second thought, it is actually customary to do so in a lot of places.
For example, 他又高又大(he's big and tall) 这东西又贵又不好(this item's expensive but low quality)
Even the sentence in question used the term 多少 twice in the phrase 寫多少便賣多少.
So perhaps there's really not an easy way to define in what situations repeating words is okay and in what situations it's not.
There's also no cut-and-dry rule for the repeated usage of the character 的. Suffice it to say you don't want to have one behind each and every successive adjective describing the same noun. For example:
这家商店的服务员的态度很好 这家商店服务员的态度很好 (better)
他的哥哥的丈母娘病了 他哥哥的丈母娘病了 (better)
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Note added at 20 hrs (2006-06-29 04:39:06 GMT)
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p.s. 这家商店服务员态度很好 (even better)
The general rule of thumb is to avoid using the same character with the same meaning repeatedly, and especially to avoid them being too close together. This also applies to the use of 的
那個鋪子賣的東西的價錢... for example, although grammatically correct, would be considered quite wordy. Leaving out the 2nd 的 would improve the style and flow of the sentence
Of course this rule doesn't apply to usages such as 好好学习， 天天向上 or 人人都说山西好风光
I also agree with Wenjer's analysis above. By chopping up the sentence into small phrases that it's made up of, you can see that the 2nd 的 in question is really not needed.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2006-06-29 04:24:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Correction:
Sorry, I was a bit too hasty in generalizing the good writing style of not using Chinese words repeatedly in the same sentence. On second thought, it is actually customary to do so in a lot of places.
For example, 他又高又大(he's big and tall) 这东西又贵又不好(this item's expensive but low quality)
Even the sentence in question used the term 多少 twice in the phrase 寫多少便賣多少.
So perhaps there's really not an easy way to define in what situations repeating words is okay and in what situations it's not.
There's also no cut-and-dry rule for the repeated usage of the character 的. Suffice it to say you don't want to have one behind each and every successive adjective describing the same noun. For example:
这家商店的服务员的态度很好 这家商店服务员的态度很好 (better)
他的哥哥的丈母娘病了 他哥哥的丈母娘病了 (better)
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Note added at 20 hrs (2006-06-29 04:39:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
p.s. 这家商店服务员态度很好 (even better)
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Final rendering: The prices in that store are very reasonable. You pay what is written on the tag, and there is no need to barter.
Discussion: Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/part2/II-9b-g.html#s16 for further discussion.
Acknowledgement: My thanks wherestip and Wenjer for their very helpful insight. In the end, Chinese and Japanese are once again both similar and different. Great job, once again!
Best wishes from the land of no mountains surrounded by sea on many sides."
Discussion