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Insnijding is noodzakelijk maar niet zichtbaar
kena
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Errant question
Apr 17, 2006 09:18
18 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Flemish term

conculante

Non-PRO Flemish to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Hi. I am working on a Belgian court ruling, and have been unable to find a translation for the word conculante. Can anyone help me? I need to find the translation by Tuesday, noon.
Thanks very much.
Proposed translations (English)
5 +1 Party submitting the brief
5 Petitioner (or appellant)
4 the defence / prosecution
4 -1 concluante=demonstrative, conclusive
4 -1 conclusive
References
refs
Change log

Apr 17, 2006 11:08: Deborah do Carmo changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Apr 17, 2006 11:11: Deborah do Carmo changed "Language pair" from "Dutch to English" to "Flemish to English"

Discussion

Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
Van Dale Well, of course I don't expect Van Dale to deal with a diff legal system, but it does give the Flemish meaning of words as well, and that's why I don't understand why it is not in the dictionary. Thankfully, we don't get many Flemish texts to translate.
writeaway Apr 17, 2006:
I was just about to add the same comment as Debbie. Why would a Dutch dico deal with a different legal system? Although some never want to recognise the fact. Belgian legal is not the same as Dutch and trying to make it the same will lead to big probs
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
Van Dale (and to a lesser extent Jurlex) are of little use when translating Belgian legal ....... it's a (mine)field on its own
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
By the way It isn't a criminal case, its a civil suit. I only wish we did criminal cases here. I'd like to translate a juicy murder trial transcript, but unfortunately, someone would have to die first.
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
OK Thanks everyone who has replied (special thanks to Deborah). One question though, if it is everyday Belgian legalese, why isn't it in the Dikke Van Dale? That is what threw me off track in the first place, and made me think it was French, which it isn't.
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
It is a perfectly valid Belgian term (in Dutch) - like words of any language they may have their origins in another language but this is everyday Belgian (Dutch) legalese.
Andre de Vries Apr 17, 2006:
Deborah is right. But this is French and not Dutch. And you would have got this from looking in Proz Term search.
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
Thanks But I think Deborah should get the kudoz, cause she suggested claimant, which fits very nicely in the text (yes, I am the only moron in the office today).
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
In this case, none of the answers given are correct so close without grading and put the answer in the glossary.
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
More I can't remember who mentioned it, but after several attempts to find the word in a French dictionary, I though it must be a typo, but no such luck. How do I give kudoz without hurting anyone's feelings? You're all being very helpful.
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
No, you can't use the other party's name for the reason you've stated. So decide whether you're dealing with appeal or not and go with either appellant if so and claimant if a court of first instance.
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
The case No, its not on appeal, this is the first court document (apart from the summons, which we did translate, but the word conculante is not used in that text).
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
I know you do legal, which is why I was saying politely you have to cut through the crap and see it for what it is :)
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
Thanks Well, I could use the party's name, but its rather long and if I did that, I would have to use the other party's name everywhere, too, and like I said, the word is used 100's of times in the text.
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
Very little - you are using respondent is the case on appeal? If so, appellant for UK and not claimant!
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
Hope I'm not wasting your time Well, I have thought of it from a legal perspective, as I'm a legal translator. Perhaps I have been focussing too much on the term itself, rather than thinking what it must logically mean! Deborah, do you ever get any sleep? ha ha ha
writeaway Apr 17, 2006:
petitioner, plaintiff, defendant or as Deborah says, party to the proceedings. as a legal translator you will have to decide how it's used. Swiss German or Austrian legal isn't the same as German legal. and Belgian legal is NOT the same as Dutch.
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
Correct Buck, in English you just keep to the name of the parties but of course you didn't let us in on the specifics:). If it's for the UK it's claimant, unless a divorce case.
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
Something else After racking my brain for two days, I think it MUST be claimant or petitioner, since in my text conculante is the opposite party to the Respondent (our office translation of verweerster).
Deborah do Carmo Apr 17, 2006:
Buck, give the context please. Hint: The answer is actually very simple if you think contextually as a legal translator but since it can differ throughout your text, help us out here with the missing pieces of the jigsaw please!
Buck (asker) Apr 17, 2006:
Your replies What an overwhelming response. I'll give the sentence in a sec, but I would like to say, I thought it was French, too, as the text originates from Belgium, but I can't find it our French dictionaries here in the office. It does indeed refer to a party in a lawsuit, and is used 100's of times in the text. Here's an example: Dat immers hieruit duidelijk het commercieel belang in hoofde van conculante volgt. Could it be claimant?
Andre de Vries Apr 17, 2006:
most likely "concluante" is a noun here, but we need the sentence!
writeaway Apr 17, 2006:
Can you please show the sentence in NL, although I suspect it's used very often.......

Proposed translations

-1
6 mins

concluante=demonstrative, conclusive

Maybe it's French?
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : maybe it's a party, not an adjective?
1 min
agree Jack den Haan : With conclusive.
29 mins
disagree Deborah do Carmo : it's a party to the proceedings
1 hr
disagree Andre de Vries : this is a noun -
1 hr
Something went wrong...
-1
46 mins

conclusive

It's a French adjective meaning conclusive, decisive, convincing, or even adequate or sufficient (in the sense or context of reasoning). Dutch: overtuigend, afdoend, beslissend, concludent.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-04-17 10:56:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS: Like Vitali, I have assumed that 'conculante' is a typo for 'concluante'. Should have mentioned this earlier. Sorry...
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : why do you assume it's an adjective?/ this is a legal question about a very basic term used all the time in Belgian legalese. why are you looking in Fr dico?
19 mins
It's indicated as such in my French dictionary.
neutral Andre de Vries : if this is Dutch then there is no way it can be an adjective
35 mins
It's not Dutch, at least not according to the most recent Grote Van Dale.
disagree Deborah do Carmo : it's a party to the proceedings
45 mins
Thanks Debs.
Something went wrong...
1 hr
Flemish term (edited): concluante

the defence / prosecution

I take this as the person making the concluding statement - or defence statement - or prosecution statement.

You have to see from the context who it is making the statement.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-04-17 11:10:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

claimant, appellant, pleading party

etc. see above
Peer comment(s):
neutral Deborah do Carmo : this would be assuming the case is criminal which of course we don't know as Asker hasn't provided the necessary context - but this should at least point him in the right direction as a legal translator//yes well, I suppose Ask the Asker isn't the place
15 mins
thanks - of course it's Flemish -
Something went wrong...
+1
3110 days

Party submitting the brief

Having been a lawyer in private practice, I've used the term innumerable times.
"Concluant" or "Concluante" is the party for whom a lawyer is submitting a brief ("conclusies") to a Tribunal or Court. It can be the claiming or the defending party.
Example sentence:

In deze conclusies zal de concluante aantonen dat de vordering van de eisende partij ongegrond is...

Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Beijer
2842 days
Something went wrong...
5251 days

Petitioner (or appellant)

This term comes from the French legal system not the Dutch one. It depends on the context whether it is a petitioner or an appellant.
Both claimant and defendant can become an appellant, so a concluant.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

5952 days
Reference:

refs

see also: https://termhotel.com/concluant (I created an entry on this in my online termbase)
Something went wrong...
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