Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
Représentant savoir
English translation:
representing, as follows (to wit)
Added to glossary by
Séverine Watson
May 13, 2022 12:20
2 yrs ago
53 viewers *
French term
Représentant savoir
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Inheritance; declaration of estate
Once again, this appears in a declaration of estate under the section "PARTS IMPOSABLES ET LIQUIDATION DES BIENS".
The heir XXX
Part lui revenant xxxxx €*
Représentant savoir :
Part légale xxxxx €*
*The amounts are the same in this case.
Does anyone know what this expression means? I am tempted to just translate it as "representing", but I really don't want to bebarking up the wrong tree.
Thanks!
The heir XXX
Part lui revenant xxxxx €*
Représentant savoir :
Part légale xxxxx €*
*The amounts are the same in this case.
Does anyone know what this expression means? I am tempted to just translate it as "representing", but I really don't want to bebarking up the wrong tree.
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +4 | representing, as follows (to wit) | Adrian MM. |
4 +1 | Stating that he/she knows | AllegroTrans |
5 -1 | Representative(s): | ShaneBoisvert |
References
<u>Règle</u> « À savoir (suivi ou non... | ph-b (X) |
Proposed translations
+4
1 hr
French term (edited):
représentant(,) savoir
Selected
representing, as follows (to wit)
Part lui revenant xxxxx €* > the share accruing / due to him ...
Représentant (,) savoir > namely / viz. representing / accounting for (so 'satisfying' in whole or in part') >
Part légale xxxxx €* : the automatic, statutory entitlement (UK Solicitor-speak: entrenched share on the statutory trusts) of ....
I won't *complicate* matters (and confuse our UK accountants) by referring in Anglo-Am. law either to satisfaction of 'portion-debts (e.g. a lifetime debt of honour owed by a parent ) by willed legacies, or the doctrines of abatement : reduction or ademption : wipe-out of legacies when there aren't enough assets to go round.
Otherwise, ph-b's savoir parsed interpretation or 'construction' of the Will had - as per usual - been my first thought.
FRE/DEU chosen in the Proz Weblink for : Les biens ci-dessus inventoriés ont été laissés en garde de Monsieur XY qui s‘en charge pour les *représenter* quand et à qui il appartiendra = Dann wird er besagte Güter ...erneut "vorstellen > 'then he will be re-submitting the assets...'
Représentant (,) savoir > namely / viz. representing / accounting for (so 'satisfying' in whole or in part') >
Part légale xxxxx €* : the automatic, statutory entitlement (UK Solicitor-speak: entrenched share on the statutory trusts) of ....
I won't *complicate* matters (and confuse our UK accountants) by referring in Anglo-Am. law either to satisfaction of 'portion-debts (e.g. a lifetime debt of honour owed by a parent ) by willed legacies, or the doctrines of abatement : reduction or ademption : wipe-out of legacies when there aren't enough assets to go round.
Otherwise, ph-b's savoir parsed interpretation or 'construction' of the Will had - as per usual - been my first thought.
FRE/DEU chosen in the Proz Weblink for : Les biens ci-dessus inventoriés ont été laissés en garde de Monsieur XY qui s‘en charge pour les *représenter* quand et à qui il appartiendra = Dann wird er besagte Güter ...erneut "vorstellen > 'then he will be re-submitting the assets...'
Example sentence:
Equitable doctrine of satisfaction is said to be founded on the maxim that equity imputes an intention to fulfill an obligation.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
ph-b (X)
: "As per usual" (:-)), not sure I understand all of your explanations, but I think I get the gist of it. Certainly agree with "namely", "viz.", and "to wit" (see my discussion post).
39 mins
|
Thanks, Philippe. My hunch and instinct, though sometimes wrong, was that the share due to the beneficiary coincides, tallies and dovetails with the 'statutory portion'.
|
|
agree |
Jennifer White
4 hrs
|
Thanks, Jennifer, and merci.
|
|
agree |
philgoddard
: Not "to wit", or "viz", though. Where I am, we're well into the 21st century.
17 hrs
|
Never mind, Phil. It's a small point compared to the larger picture of représentant being a faux ami of representing > déclarant.
|
|
agree |
Mpoma
: to wit. Use it all the time. Particularly in the quite commonly heard set strigine legal expression "to wit to whoo!"
18 hrs
|
Thanks and merci mpoma. Funnily enough, spectacled owl alias 'hibou' used to be my nickname at EN & FR school....
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks again, Adrian!"
+1
39 mins
Stating that he/she knows
The heir is making a statement that he or she knows certain facts comverning the deceased and the estate
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2022-05-13 13:00:42 GMT)
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SP: concerning
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2022-05-13 13:07:44 GMT)
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Liability for Honest Misrepresentation - JSTOR
https://www.jstor.org › stable › pdf
by S Williston · 1911 · Cited by 216 — The falsity and fraud consist in representing that he knows the facts to be true of his own knowledge, when he has not such knowledge.' (Litchfield v.
26 pages
In Re Friedlander, 170 BR 472 - CourtListener.com
https://www.courtlistener.com › opinion › in-re-friedlan...
31 Mar 1994 — ... with termites and the seller answers that it isn't, the seller is implicitly representing that she knows the house is not infested.
[2008] Festiva is now managing my resort, how bad is it going ...
https://tugbbs.com › ... › US - Eastern States Timesharing
29 Jul 2008 — However, if she is not a legal person, she shouldn't be representing that she knows what happened in the course of the legal proceedings ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2022-05-13 13:00:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
SP: concerning
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2022-05-13 13:07:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Liability for Honest Misrepresentation - JSTOR
https://www.jstor.org › stable › pdf
by S Williston · 1911 · Cited by 216 — The falsity and fraud consist in representing that he knows the facts to be true of his own knowledge, when he has not such knowledge.' (Litchfield v.
26 pages
In Re Friedlander, 170 BR 472 - CourtListener.com
https://www.courtlistener.com › opinion › in-re-friedlan...
31 Mar 1994 — ... with termites and the seller answers that it isn't, the seller is implicitly representing that she knows the house is not infested.
[2008] Festiva is now managing my resort, how bad is it going ...
https://tugbbs.com › ... › US - Eastern States Timesharing
29 Jul 2008 — However, if she is not a legal person, she shouldn't be representing that she knows what happened in the course of the legal proceedings ...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Daryo
: without more context, that's what's makes most sense // Literally: "(the submitter of this tax form) stating to know that ..." - as confirmed by additional context. // Also, no "à" missing - no typo in the ST.
2 hrs
|
thanks
|
|
disagree |
ShaneBoisvert
: Don't think so, especially if it's in a table-like section like this.
2 hrs
|
thanks, noted, but table-like sections are quite common in legal documents nowadays
|
|
agree |
Brianna Finley (X)
3 days 1 hr
|
-1
3 hrs
Representative(s):
"to wit" and "being" are standard choices, but in a larger context, I think keeping it shorter, with the (s) and colon doing the job of "à savoir"
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Jennifer White
: I think it's a present participle, not a noun. I think Adrian's answer is correct./It means "namely" or similar. Have seen this before in similar contexts
2 hrs
|
perhaps, but representative is représentant, a full-fledged noun
|
|
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: If this is a statement by the heir I don't think he or she will be a representative of anybody
3 hrs
|
disagree |
Daryo
: CL5 clue: "Représentant" is not "un représentant" - a noun in this ST // "Représentant ..." = participe présent du verbe représenter.
1 day 13 hrs
|
Reference comments
2 days 6 hrs
Reference:
Règle
« À savoir (suivi ou non de deux points), loc. conj. ou adv. de coord. de phrase. [Sert à introduire une explication, un développement] Synon. c'est-à-dire. »
(https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/savoir)
« savoir (à savoir)
L’expression à savoir s’emploie dans le sens de « c’est-à-dire ». Elle introduit une énumération ou une explication. »
(https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/clefsfp/...
Exemples
«...la condamnation de l'employeur au versement des salaires restant dus jusqu'au terme du contrat de travail, à savoir la somme de 4400 euros, constitue une indemnisation suffisante du préjudice subi... »
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000029612009
« La fraction excédant le montant de 82 8272 €, à savoir la somme de 47 728 € sera donc soumise à cotisations de sécurité sociale.... »
https://boss.gouv.fr/portail/accueil/indemnites-de-rupture.h...
« L’ancien combattant consent et s’engage à verser au Directeur ledit prix d’achat de la manière suivante, savoir : la somme de dollars ( $) versée au moment de la signature des présentes
(https://laws.justice.gc.ca/fra/reglements/C.R.C.,_ch._1594/p...
« À mon décès, tous mes biens reviendront à
l’association sans but lucratif …
la Fondation …
Ces deux organismes se partageront tous mes biens à l’exception des deux legs particuliers qu’ils devront exécuter, à savoir :
(https://www.dons-legs.be/v2/leguer-ou-donner/)
« À savoir (suivi ou non de deux points), loc. conj. ou adv. de coord. de phrase. [Sert à introduire une explication, un développement] Synon. c'est-à-dire. »
(https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/savoir)
« savoir (à savoir)
L’expression à savoir s’emploie dans le sens de « c’est-à-dire ». Elle introduit une énumération ou une explication. »
(https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/clefsfp/...
Exemples
«...la condamnation de l'employeur au versement des salaires restant dus jusqu'au terme du contrat de travail, à savoir la somme de 4400 euros, constitue une indemnisation suffisante du préjudice subi... »
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000029612009
« La fraction excédant le montant de 82 8272 €, à savoir la somme de 47 728 € sera donc soumise à cotisations de sécurité sociale.... »
https://boss.gouv.fr/portail/accueil/indemnites-de-rupture.h...
« L’ancien combattant consent et s’engage à verser au Directeur ledit prix d’achat de la manière suivante, savoir : la somme de dollars ( $) versée au moment de la signature des présentes
(https://laws.justice.gc.ca/fra/reglements/C.R.C.,_ch._1594/p...
« À mon décès, tous mes biens reviendront à
l’association sans but lucratif …
la Fondation …
Ces deux organismes se partageront tous mes biens à l’exception des deux legs particuliers qu’ils devront exécuter, à savoir :
(https://www.dons-legs.be/v2/leguer-ou-donner/)
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Conor McAuley
: Excellent explanation, with references!
1 day 14 hrs
|
Discussion
It has a lot to do with the style of writing used when creating forms, and the capacity to recognise it and interpret it correctly. As the context always wins, you need a larger sample of the form for that.
The implied full sentence is
"(the submitter of this form) declares that he/she knows that ... " the following amount is the "Part légale" of the total inheritance received (the sum under "Part lui revenant")
Thanks so much for your comments so far.
The form in question is: 2705-SD (https://www.impots.gouv.fr/formulaire/2705-sd/declaration-de...
I've tracked down a declaration online that looks very similar to mine (see page 2 of the PDF) and also uses the expression "représentant savoir". It's why it makes me wonder whether this is a set phrase in the world of wills and estates:
https://www.univ-tours.fr/medias/fichier/deliberation-n-2021...
At Daryo's request, I'm also attaching a screenshot of what follows.
I'm afraid there's not much more info I can give!
What is the full title of this form in French? Is that some kind of tax form?