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machine a plumes
Apr 8, 2002 13:36
23 yrs ago
56 viewers *
French term

savoir, savoir-faire et savoir-être

French to English Bus/Financial job descriptions, human resources
In a document about defining job descriptions I have to make a distinction between the following:
"Compétences -
connaissances (savoir)
pratiques (savoir-faire)
comportement (savoir-être)"
Of course I understand the difference but I would appreciate any help on making the distinction in English while keeping the "grace" of the French terms !
Proposed translations (English)
4 Know your field – Know your job – Know your role
4 +8 knowledge, performance, behavior
4 +3 Knowledge, know-how, savoir-faire
4 +3 knowledge, knowhow, and interpersonal skills
4 +1 knowledge, know-how and existential competence
4 +1 knowledge, know-how, attitude
4 +1 formal education, the ability to learn, and interpersonal skills
5 knowledge, skills and abilities
4 knowing / knowing what to do / knowing how to act
4 Professional competencies - ....
4 knowledge, skills and art of living
4 knowledge, skills and tact
4 knowledge, know-how, behavio(u)r
4 Knowledge, performance and savoir faire

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Apr 8, 2002:
further info In the original the three "savoir" are in brackets as given above so I need two translations each time:
knowledge (...)
performance (...)
behaviour (...)
(unless you're suggesting I leave the words in brackets altogether ?)

Proposed translations

3 hrs
Selected

Know your field – Know your job – Know your role

Adapted from privileged concepts to American slogans

(What colour are their parachutes?)
Peer comment(s):
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Maybe could material for the stuff in parantheses, if someone insists that the paratheses are retained. Is the title of the book "What color is your parachute?" Also, are question marks required?
7 hrs
They could go in parentheses, but no q. marks ? Book title is as you say. I was just being frivolous; if I've caused any confusion, I apologize. See Steven Geller's remarks for a sober treatment of the phrases as a problem of translation not adaptation.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks for your help on this one. In the end I went for knowledge, performance, behaviour with your suggestion (know your job...etc.) in brackets. I needed to keep the brackets as the terms come up again later in the document. Thanks to everyone else who contributed to this - it was fascinating to follow the different suggestions and everyone certainly helped in my thought processes on this one ! The value of the pro-z site comes into its own with this sort of question !"
+8
5 mins

knowledge, performance, behavior

The French is quite elegant. I think it means knowledge, performance (you perform with what you know=pratiques) and behavior is comportement
Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad : Definitely the right approach to take in English! As Jane says, "The French is quite elegant." A reader of English would squirm at so much elegance!
2 mins
agree Erika Pavelka (X)
2 mins
agree Margaret Lagoyianni
8 mins
agree Yakov Tomara
17 mins
agree Jennifer White : agree, except that I would be extra elegant and spell behaviour with a u - just like that!!
21 mins
neutral kmaciel : I don't find the French particularly elegant - rather bombastic and out of context (literary language in a business context).
35 mins
that makes for a difference from business'usual boring drivel, right?
agree Fred Louder : Just K,P,B as suggested and leave "les trois savoirs" at home where they belong!
1 hr
agree ZOLTÁN PARRAGH
3 hrs
agree Nicola Da Si (X)
1 day 2 hrs
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+1
9 mins

knowledge, know-how and existential competence

An alternative for "know-how" could also be "skills".
Peer comment(s):
agree Margaret Lagoyianni : further to the above I would suggest ' composure' for savoir-etre
34 mins
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9 mins

knowing / knowing what to do / knowing how to act

I don't think you're likely to find a solution which is as elegant as the French ... the forms are just different.

You could just about get away with 'knowledge' and 'know-how' for the first two, but then what do you do with the third.

knowledge
what to do
how to act

Doesn't have the same thread running through it, but at least has the benefit of brevity.

I'm still thinking about it!

HTH

Mary
Peer comment(s):
neutral Fred Louder : See another shot at it (below)
3 hrs
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+3
18 mins

Knowledge, know-how, savoir-faire

Well, this is one of those cases when a French expression has been adopted (and adapted in meaning) and is now rather common place in English. The EN dictionary definition of "savoir-faire" is: the ability to behave in the appropriate way in social situations. So there you have it!
Reference:

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary

Peer comment(s):
agree Roddy Stegemann : It is true. Savoir-faire appears to be used very differently in the English language. When I first saw the word savoir-?tre, I thought "being".
9 mins
agree Parrot : de faux amis...
24 mins
agree Dr. Chrys Chrystello : absolutely
2 hrs
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+1
21 mins

knowledge, know-how, attitude

Agree with everyone on the first two but since we are speaking of human resources, attitude seems the most appropriate for savoir-être to me.

Don
Peer comment(s):
agree luskie
8 hrs
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+3
22 mins

knowledge, knowhow, and interpersonal skills

As was suggested above French style has no place in the English language, but for lovers of French culture.

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Note added at 2002-04-08 14:01:18 (GMT)
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Some people find it more elegant to add the hyphen in knowhow. So, an alternative might be knowledge, know-how, and interpersonal skills

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Note added at 2002-04-08 14:47:58 (GMT)
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In response to kmaciel\'s comment about racist slurs I refer kmaciel to the following webpage: <http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/ILEC2001/Manuscript/barr... No slur was intended.

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Note added at 2002-04-08 15:07:49 (GMT)
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Although it was not requested of me, I would like to apologize for having made fun of Victoria\'s surname. I did not realize that it was her actual name until after having checked her website - something that I should have done before making the comments.

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Note added at 2002-04-09 00:04:00 (GMT)
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If \"savoir-faire\" were not a faux-ami, I would suggest leaving the French \"savoir\"s in parantheses. As it is not, striking everything in parantheses is best. This will avoid confusion.

As someone suggested the three \"savoir\"s appear to have arisen from a very special context probably known to most French, but unknown to many non-French.
Peer comment(s):
agree Victoria Barkoff
14 mins
Is your middle name more closely related to trees or dogs? It could be very romantic for tree-lovers, but somewhat alienating to people who are not very fond of dogs.
agree PaulaMac (X) : But know-how is hypenated
1 hr
agree luskie : If CLP has to translate terms both inside and outside the parentheses, I would suggest to go for "attitude (interpersonal skills)"
8 hrs
Leaving out the material contained in the paraentheses is best. Please see additional note.
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24 mins

Professional competencies - ....

sector-specific knowledge,
know-how
best practices

(who says English is inelegant?)
Hope that was helpful.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Roddy Stegemann : In answer to your question, but unrelated to this topic, many many East Asians, who learn it as a second language which they never use.
4 mins
I AM EAST ASIAN - what is this a RACIST comment?
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31 mins

knowledge, skills and art of living

Apart from "savoir-être" the other two do not sound particularly elegant to a French ear.
Reference:

French native speaker

Peer comment(s):
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Very oriental, philosophical, even mystical.
1 hr
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2 hrs

knowledge, skills and tact

savoir-etre is more commonly rendered as savoir-vivre - carrying the sense of tact, style, or being well educated - an amalgam of all of these!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Roddy Stegemann : Tact is a good substitute for interpersonal skills, but skills is a poor substitute for know-how.
8 hrs
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+1
5 hrs

formal education, the ability to learn, and interpersonal skills

The expression "savoir(s), savoir-faire, savoir-être et savoir-vivre-ensemble" is a cliché that is used mostly in the field of education.

They are also known as "les quatre savoirs" = "the four competencies".

In you context of job descriptions, I would translate it as: formal education, the ability to learn, and interpersonal skills

======

Here are a couple of references for you to understand how it is used and misused...

4.7 The user/learner's competences

4.7.1 General competences

4.7.1.1 declarative knowledge (savoir)

4.7.1.1.1 knowledge of the world
4.7.1.1.2 sociocultural knowledge
4.7.1.1.3 intercultural awareness

4.7.1.2 skills and know-how (savoir-faire)
4.7.1.2.1 practical skills and know-how
4.7.1.2.2 intercultural skills and know-how
4.7.1.3 existential competence (savoir-être)
4.7.1.4 ability to learn (savoir-apprendre)
4.7.1.4.1 language and communication awareness
4.7.1.4.2 general phonetic skills
4.7.1.4.3 study skills
4.7.1.4.4 heuristic skills

http://culture.coe.fr/lang/eng/eedu2.4d1.htm

Enseigner les savoirs, savoir faire et savoir être requis pour promouvoir la santé dans le nouveau millénaire

Teaching Knowledge, Skills, and Attitudes for Health Promotion in the New Millennium

http://www.cpha.ca/francais/conf/archive/91stAnl/catch.htm

http://www.cpha.ca/english/conf/archive/91stAnl/catch.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree Lise Boismenu, B.Sc. : Knowledge, ability, interpersonal relationship skills. Ce sont les termes généralement utilisés en RH.
3 hrs
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8 hrs

knowledge, know-how, behavio(u)r

none
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14 hrs

Knowledge, performance and savoir faire

having read the other translations, this one wins for me.
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5123 days

knowledge, skills and abilities

I think the references I've included should more or less speak for themselves, but KSA is a widely used acronym these days in human resources and organisational psychology. Recently the National Accreditation Authority for Translations & Interpreters (in Australia) published reports on KSAs for translators and interpreters as well.
Reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge,_Skills,_and_Abilities

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20141112122448-3299358-the-difference-between-knowledge-skills-and-abilities

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