| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Do you think Proz should add Trados certification as translators search criteria? Thread poster: Pablo Bouvier
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I am now 30 years ago in the translation world and imho this isn't a fair procedure, not to say another thing.
A certification only proofs you have more money to spend to get it.
And maybe, only maybe, you will have a better knowledge of a CAT tool, but what is quite sure is that you will have great less money. It discriminates other more serious CAT tools vendors too.
And it does not proof neither you are a qualified translator, by far more necessary as a certi... See more I am now 30 years ago in the translation world and imho this isn't a fair procedure, not to say another thing.
A certification only proofs you have more money to spend to get it.
And maybe, only maybe, you will have a better knowledge of a CAT tool, but what is quite sure is that you will have great less money. It discriminates other more serious CAT tools vendors too.
And it does not proof neither you are a qualified translator, by far more necessary as a certification. If we needed a certification for all CATS we use, we surely won't get our money...
Related links:
http://connect.proz.com/employers/news?press_id=29
http://www.sdl.com/company/press-releases-archive-2007-sdl/press-release-sdl.htm?id=1174 ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster 
Germany
Local time: 16:46
English to German
+ ...
| Search criteria set by outsourcers | Aug 15, 2007 |
Hi Pablo,
Remember that outsourcers define the search criteria - Connect is the tool that helps them find what they are looking for.
Having said that, I would not overestimate the impact. Make sure you're offering a specialised and professional service - equally important: your profile page should be up to speed - and potential clients will find you regardless of certification.
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
It does prove exactly that I can use Trados. Nothing more and nothing less.
What I do not understand, why you all (you are not the first one to bring similar question up) do mix translators qualification with the ability to use certain software?
Please "leave the church in the village", as we use to say in Germany, and see the certification exactly as what it is - the proof, someone is able to use Trados at a certain level. This does not say anything about his/her translating abiliti... See more It does prove exactly that I can use Trados. Nothing more and nothing less.
What I do not understand, why you all (you are not the first one to bring similar question up) do mix translators qualification with the ability to use certain software?
Please "leave the church in the village", as we use to say in Germany, and see the certification exactly as what it is - the proof, someone is able to use Trados at a certain level. This does not say anything about his/her translating abilities.
It is not enough to spend some money to get certified, believe me. If you don't know how to use the software, you will not achieve the certification.
If I outsource translation work, I do (almost) always need it back translated in SDL Trados. So then the best translator in the world, using a typeritter will not help me. Whom I need, is the best possible translator with the ability to use the software at a level, which I demand. Now believe me, there are not so many out there.
BTW, other CAT tools do not have any certification programs. Would they, I would also welcome this being integrated in peoples profiles. But for now you may always say in your profile: "Expert in chemistry translation and in Trados" - without a proof, why should I believe the second part? So I would have to test the real Trados abilities of this person. With a real job - and this will cost ME a lot of money, if this statement is not true.
Jerzy ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Lets say we are talking about an SDL driving license... | Aug 15, 2007 |
Pablo:
"I have been in the world of cars for 30 years and imho this isn't a fair procedure, not to say another thing.
A driving license only proves you have more money to spend to get it.
And maybe, only maybe, you will have a better knowledge of cars but what is quite sure is that you will have great less money. It discriminates other more serious car suppliers.
And it does not prove either you are a qualified car driver, by far more necessary a... See more Pablo:
"I have been in the world of cars for 30 years and imho this isn't a fair procedure, not to say another thing.
A driving license only proves you have more money to spend to get it.
And maybe, only maybe, you will have a better knowledge of cars but what is quite sure is that you will have great less money. It discriminates other more serious car suppliers.
And it does not prove either you are a qualified car driver, by far more necessary as a certification. If we needed a certification for all the cars we use, we surely won't get our money..."
Jerzy:
"It does prove exactly that I can use SDL car. Nothing more and nothing less. What I do not understand, why you all (you are not the first one to bring similar question up) do mix qualification with the ability to use a certain car model? ... see the certification exactly as what it is - the proof, someone is able to use the car produced by SDL at a certain level. This does not say anything about his/her driving abilities....
BTW, other CAR tools do not have any certification programs. Would they, I would also welcome this being integrated in peoples profiles.... But for now you may always say in your profile: "Expert in chemistry translation and in Daimler cars" - without a proof, why should I believe the second part?
Vito, with tongue in cheek (and a spell checker)
PS: btw I have PhD in solid state chemistry and have driven a Mercedes E for the last 10 years. But, heck, I can just provide the PhD document, and nothing at all from Daimler (sg). Maybe I'll ask all the folks who rode with me all those years to chip in for me. They say that I am a lousy driver (I share their opinion), but that they always enjoyed my rides - to their fullest satisfaction, as the official expression goes - (dto).
[Edited at 2007-08-15 08:29] ▲ Collapse
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| Wake up and smell the coffee | Aug 15, 2007 |
At the end of the day the customer is footing the bill, he can choose WHATEVER search/selection criteria he wants (within the law).
You won't hear contractors bidding for a tender to build a football stadium whining because the tender document states they *must* use Autocad - if the job is worthwhile they'll simply make sure they have it.
So SDL Trados is ahead of the others offering certification and agressively marketing it. Good for them.
Snooze or lose... See more At the end of the day the customer is footing the bill, he can choose WHATEVER search/selection criteria he wants (within the law).
You won't hear contractors bidding for a tender to build a football stadium whining because the tender document states they *must* use Autocad - if the job is worthwhile they'll simply make sure they have it.
So SDL Trados is ahead of the others offering certification and agressively marketing it. Good for them.
Snooze or lose - that's life in the real business world and some translators need to frankly wake up and smell the coffee, the translation industry is becoming ever more competitive with each passing day.
Either get certified or concentrate on jobs that don't require it, but the tides are turning and business interests dictate individuals who cling to the "good old days" simply aren't going to stop that happening.
So it isn't "fair", well what is in life?
And anyhow, why shouldn't those who work hard enough and invest the time, effort and money to get certified not be allowed to showcase the fact and really benefit from it?
Or is "fair" a one-sided thing?
[Edited at 2007-08-15 08:51] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | too marketing for my tastes | Aug 15, 2007 |
So, people who paid SDL for non-exlusive right to advertize the company on their profiles and business cards will get better exposure in search results and better chance to get the job. Others will be forced to buy the paper from SDL to stay competetive on proz.
Great move guys.
| | | | | We all have a business to run | Aug 15, 2007 |
Fair or unfair does not become part of the equation when it comes to business.
Proz.com have a business to run and so do SDL. That´s why we´re talking about Trados certification and not Microsoft Word certification here.
But we, translators, also have a business to run and we´ll all do whatever is necessary to convince customers that they should choose us and nobody else. We watch what the market is doing and react accordingly. This time our challenge is Trados, tomo... See more Fair or unfair does not become part of the equation when it comes to business.
Proz.com have a business to run and so do SDL. That´s why we´re talking about Trados certification and not Microsoft Word certification here.
But we, translators, also have a business to run and we´ll all do whatever is necessary to convince customers that they should choose us and nobody else. We watch what the market is doing and react accordingly. This time our challenge is Trados, tomorrow Microsoft could step in with another wonderful idea.
It´s overwhelming, but it´s part of staying afloat. However, let´s not forget that there are loads of customers out there who want Wordfast instead of Trados or even the good old translation in Word format. And let´s not forget either that the rest of our skills very much count.
Nobody is going to get a job just because they´re Trados certified. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Levan Namoradze
Georgia
Local time: 18:46
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
| NO, I DO NOT | Aug 15, 2007 |
NO, I DO NOT.
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| The did it long time ago | Aug 15, 2007 |
| | | | | I wonder what this will do to the image of Trados | Aug 15, 2007 |
I would not know how to sell a software as "user-friendly" and at the same time as one which requires a special training and even certification to be able to handle it.
But that's not my problem..
[Edited at 2007-08-15 09:56]
| | | | | Have you really read the verbiage? | Aug 15, 2007 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
It does prove exactly that I can use Trados. Nothing more and nothing less.
Jerzy
There is a horrific press announcement on the Connect! website at
http://connect.proz.com/employers/news?press_id=29
Samples from the verbiage there:
ProZ.com Integrates SDL TRADOS Certification into Translator Search Criteria
Industry leaders partner to enhance opportunities for translators and facilitate standards for the translation supply chain
(...)
SDL TRADOS Certification provides peace of mind for end-user corporations looking to deliver high quality translations.
These misleading statements are put out in the name of proz.com. Jerzy, I can accept your sober statement quoted above, but the press release on the Connect! site does not clearly say that, and the sentences I have quoted are at least misleading, if not downright dishonest.
It all serves to foster the suspicion that ProZ has been downgraded to be a mere marketing channel for SDL Trados. The former Vice President of SDL Trados now works in this capacity for ProZ and directs the Connect! initiative, so perhaps we should not be surprised to read such misleading marketingbabble on the Connect site.
It is perfectly fair for certified users of SDL Trados to be able to show this on their ProZ profile. But it would be a pleasant surprise if the misleading rhetoric could be taken away - otherwise there will be repeated questions about the neutrality of ProZ. And the way the current press release tries to manipulate outsourcers to specify the certification as a "must-have" criterion for job postings is downright shameful (IMHO).
[Edited at 2007-08-15 10:10]
| | | | | great move v2 | Aug 15, 2007 |
Victor Dewsbery wrote: Jerzy Czopik wrote:
It does prove exactly that I can use Trados. Nothing more and nothing less.
Jerzy There is a horrific press announcement on the Connect! website at http://connect.proz.com/employers/news?press_id=29 Samples from the verbiage there: ProZ.com Integrates SDL TRADOS Certification into Translator Search Criteria
Industry leaders partner to enhance opportunities for translators and facilitate standards for the translation supply chain
(...)
SDL TRADOS Certification provides peace of mind for end-user corporations looking to deliver high quality translations. These misleading statements are put out in the name of proz.com. Jerzy, I can accept your sober statement quoted above, but the press release on the Connect! site does not clearly say that, and the sentences I have quoted are at least misleading, if not downright dishonest. It all serves to foster the suspicion that ProZ has been downgraded to be a mere marketing channel for SDL Trados. The former Vice President of SDL Trados now works in this capacity for ProZ and directs the Connect! initiative, so perhaps we should not be surprised to read such misleading marketingbabble on the Connect site. It is perfectly fair for certified users of SDL Trados to be able to show this on their ProZ profile. But it would be a pleasant surprise if the misleading rhetoric could be taken away - otherwise there will be repeated questions about the neutrality of ProZ. And the way the current press release tries to manipulate outsourcers to specify the certification as a "must-have" criterion for job postings is downright shameful (IMHO). [Edited at 2007-08-15 10:10]
As I said, they have made great move from marketing perspective. It's like gentle racket, if they succeed (I belive they will), it will be like this: "Pay us, or stay out of business. We don't insist though."
+ note, that this "certification" is an "incremental opportunity". It means, that you will have to refresh it every year, paying quite the same amount just to continue promoting their brand.
Respect & uvazhuha=)
[Edited at 2007-08-15 10:31]
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Textklick
Local time: 15:46
German to English
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In memoriam | Verbiage being the word | Aug 15, 2007 |
Victor Dewsbery wrote:
And the way the current press release tries to manipulate outsourcers to specify the certification as a "must-have" criterion for job postings is downright shameful
(IMHO).
[Edited at 2007-08-15 10:10]
Press releases can be misleading. They can also indicate that software expertise is not necessarily the same as linguistic excellence.
I quote this: "With companies like Microsoft and Siemens promoting SDL TRADOS certification, it's a no-brainer..." from here: http://www.sdl.com/company/news/press-release-sdl?id=1174
From a purely business of view, I kind of agree with Lawyer-Linguist: "So SDL Trados is ahead of the others offering certification and agressively marketing it. Good for them.
Snooze or lose - that's life in the real business world and some translators need to frankly wake up and smell the coffee, the translation industry is becoming ever more competitive with each passing day.
Either get certified or concentrate on jobs that don't require it, but the tides are turning and business interests dictate individuals who cling to the "good old days" simply aren't going to stop that happening."
Hopefully as and when other vendors go for this concept, it will also be an option that is accepted and displayed by Proz (and maybe a cheaper certification)?
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| Of course I did not read any press releases | Aug 15, 2007 |
as I do not have time for doing so.
I hardly found time to pass the certification exam (doing so middle in the night some month ago - this just to illustrate my current workload).
To be quite honest I do not care that much about press releases as long I get the work I need. I gladly showcase my Trados certification, because after having passed the exam I know it is not that easy.
To answer another question - certification and special training does still copmply with user frendl... See more as I do not have time for doing so.
I hardly found time to pass the certification exam (doing so middle in the night some month ago - this just to illustrate my current workload).
To be quite honest I do not care that much about press releases as long I get the work I need. I gladly showcase my Trados certification, because after having passed the exam I know it is not that easy.
To answer another question - certification and special training does still copmply with user frendliness. Mac OS is considered user friendly, but will someone become power user without any training?
But what is important here, and most posters do distinguish this clearly: certification has nothing in common with translators skills and will not bring jobs to someone who's only certified, but not a good translator.
Taking this from the other side: is someone, who uses a typwritter a good translator nowadays? Even if he/she has the best writing skills, his/her jobs opportunities will decrease and he/she will hardly find work. Taking a good translator with nearly as good writing skills as that one, but being perfect in CAT usage, who do you think will be chosen by the customer?
And personaly I do not believe someone being a bad translator will be able to pass the certification exam. You can do so only when working a lot with the tool, learning from the manual is not enough. And you can only work a lot with the tool, when you have enough jobs, and here we are back. A bad translator does not have so many jobs and the circle closes.
Jerzy ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Proud to be a loser (???) | Aug 15, 2007 |
Textklick wrote:
Snooze or lose - that's life in the real business world and some translators need to frankly wake up and smell the coffee, the translation industry is becoming ever more competitive with each passing day.
Either get certified or concentrate on jobs that don't require it, but the tides are turning and business interests dictate individuals who cling to the "good old days" simply aren't going to stop that happening."
Hopefully as and when other vendors go for this concept, it will also be an option that is accepted and displayed by Proz (and maybe a cheaper certification)?
You seem to think it is right for ProZ.com to offer a platform for this process and encourage this trend. You speak with scorn of the "good old days". For many, however, the "bad new days" mean:
1. You pay a high amount for your CAT tool
2. You pay again and again for nearly annual upgrades to this tool.
3. You pay for certification (again and again for upgraded versions).
4. You accept "Trados rates" with standard discount percentages.
In other words, you pay above the odds to earn less, and you wait for the day when translators will mainly have to correct automatic MT texts (and thus earn even less than with the above CAT system).
The only alternative is what you suggest:
concentrate on jobs that don't require it
I am grateful to have good direct clients and a few very good agencies that pay a decent rate and leave me to choose the tools for the job (my choice is another CAT tool, and my clients rarely ask me about it; when they do, I tell them).
This of course also means that most jobs advertised via the ProZ job system (with or without Connect!) are not even worth looking at.
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