Oct 28, 2006 11:37
18 yrs ago
6 viewers *
Latin term
Nomen non est omen
Latin to English
Art/Literary
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
I am translating a German press release about the winter flight schedule of an airport into English. The (somewhat clumsy) German headline reads "Nomen ist in diesem Fall non est omen", followed by the explanation that this is all about the "winter" flight schedule but that most of the flights are "into the summer" (not yet sure how to word this anyway).
How commonly is the expression "nomen est omen" (or its negative variant) used in English? Is it easily understood by the general public?
How commonly is the expression "nomen est omen" (or its negative variant) used in English? Is it easily understood by the general public?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | belying its name |
Tony M
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| 2 +4 | Now is the winter of our discontent made summer... |
Jack Doughty
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| 4 | It is not really used Silvia |
Anna Maria Augustine (X)
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| 4 | Winter (or rather/perhaps summer) timetable, as the name doesn't suggest |
Ian Davies
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| 3 | the name is not a sign / not true to its name |
Fabio Descalzi
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| 3 | Winter is not a winter is not a winter is not a winter |
Leonardo Marcello Pignataro (X)
|
Change log
Oct 28, 2006 11:47: Fabio Descalzi changed "Language pair" from "English" to "Latin to English" , "Field" from "Other" to "Art/Literary" , "Field (specific)" from "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters" to "Idioms / Maxims / Sayings"
Proposed translations
+5
29 mins
Selected
belying its name
I really think you have to get right away from this hideously clumsy and far-from-natural kind of phrasing in EN.
The general idea would certainyl be conveyed by my suggestion of 'belying its name...', but of course you couldn't use that as a drop-in solution in your title, you'd need to work it round a bit, maybe something along the lines of:
"A winter flight that belies its name"
...that sort of idea.
I presume what they mean is that these are winter holiday flights to sunny places?
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Note added at 29 mins (2006-10-28 12:07:35 GMT)
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Another way we might express it in English is:
"By name but not by nature"
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-10-28 13:54:51 GMT)
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I can't resist taking up the Shakespearian baton proffered by Jack, and suggesting, as a suitably enigmatic title:
"What's in a name?"
or in less bardic mode:
"Names can be deceptive"
The general idea would certainyl be conveyed by my suggestion of 'belying its name...', but of course you couldn't use that as a drop-in solution in your title, you'd need to work it round a bit, maybe something along the lines of:
"A winter flight that belies its name"
...that sort of idea.
I presume what they mean is that these are winter holiday flights to sunny places?
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Note added at 29 mins (2006-10-28 12:07:35 GMT)
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Another way we might express it in English is:
"By name but not by nature"
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-10-28 13:54:51 GMT)
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I can't resist taking up the Shakespearian baton proffered by Jack, and suggesting, as a suitably enigmatic title:
"What's in a name?"
or in less bardic mode:
"Names can be deceptive"
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thank you"
5 mins
It is not really used Silvia
It is the first time I have uses it so probably best to give a better English equivalent.
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Note added at 9 mins (2006-10-28 11:47:02 GMT)
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It means "true to its name" which I think it is best to use.
List of Latin phrases (F–O) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse, "to sail is necessary; to live is not ... nomen est omen, "the name is a sign", Thus, "true to its name". ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.e. - 116k - Cached - Similar pages
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Note added at 10 mins (2006-10-28 11:48:22 GMT)
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Sorry, It is the first time I have seen it but I would avoid it except for a legal text where it is common to keep the Latin.
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Note added at 9 mins (2006-10-28 11:47:02 GMT)
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It means "true to its name" which I think it is best to use.
List of Latin phrases (F–O) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse, "to sail is necessary; to live is not ... nomen est omen, "the name is a sign", Thus, "true to its name". ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.e. - 116k - Cached - Similar pages
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Note added at 10 mins (2006-10-28 11:48:22 GMT)
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Sorry, It is the first time I have seen it but I would avoid it except for a legal text where it is common to keep the Latin.
12 mins
Fabio Descalzi
Uruguay
Uruguay
Uruguay
GER>SPA Translator in Architecture
Native in: Spanish 
Works in: German to Spanish, English to Spanish, Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
the name is not a sign / not true to its name
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.e.
nomen est omen = "the name is a sign" / thus, "true to its name".
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Note added at 53 mins (2006-10-28 12:30:42 GMT)
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Just like the other answerers are saying, this expression is hardly used in 21st-century English newspapers...
Latin is and will be Latin - and the context to use Latin in an English text is rather a humanities essay or a scientific work.
So you'd better think about a fully English translation.
nomen est omen = "the name is a sign" / thus, "true to its name".
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Note added at 53 mins (2006-10-28 12:30:42 GMT)
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Just like the other answerers are saying, this expression is hardly used in 21st-century English newspapers...
Latin is and will be Latin - and the context to use Latin in an English text is rather a humanities essay or a scientific work.
So you'd better think about a fully English translation.
+4
1 hr
Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Translator since 1953
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, German to English, English
Now is the winter of our discontent made summer...
Shakespeare, Richard III.
As this is about winter being mixed up with summer, this might do.
A maker of marquees for entertainment events once held a winter sale of its products under the slogan:
"Now is the winter of our disco tent".
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-10-28 13:31:36 GMT)
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Come to think of it, the sale slogan may have been
"Now is the winter of our discount tent".
As this is about winter being mixed up with summer, this might do.
A maker of marquees for entertainment events once held a winter sale of its products under the slogan:
"Now is the winter of our disco tent".
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-10-28 13:31:36 GMT)
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Come to think of it, the sale slogan may have been
"Now is the winter of our discount tent".
Note from asker:
| my absolute favourite, but I used Tony's translation, so the points go to him. Sorry. The "discount tent" is brilliant, but I'm afraid wasted on the general public |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Not sure if it would work in the context, but brilliant thinking, Jack!
19 mins
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Thank you.
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| agree |
Can Altinbay
: with tony on this one.
51 mins
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Thank you.
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| agree |
Dave Calderhead
: Might work if the hub was York?
1 hr
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Thank you. Yes, that would help.
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| agree |
lafresita (X)
1 hr
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Thank you.
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6 hrs
Winter is not a winter is not a winter is not a winter
Since Latin "Nomen [est] omen" - which, as already explained, means "name is a sign" - is not so commonly used in English (while it is in Italian, for example) -, you could use a negative paraphrasing of the widely known Gertrud Stein's sentence "rose is a rose is a rose is a rose": just as the Latin "nomen omen", it means that a name immediately calls to mind what is associated with it.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: Perhaps a little too erudite for the average winter sun-seeker?! // My point exactly! ;-))
7 mins
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Not more erudite than the original German sentence, but you do have a point: I did not keep in mind that the new target would not be the well cultured German speakers anymore! :-) :-) Salut!
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14 hrs
Ian Davies
Australia
Australia
Native in English
Works in field
Australia
Australian English Localization Expert
Native in: English (Variant: Australian)
Works in: French to English, English to French, English
Winter (or rather/perhaps summer) timetable, as the name doesn't suggest
A lighthearted way of saying it...
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