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低μ路
工事の工期満了に伴う工事の検収にあたり
Sep 1, 2006 05:46
18 yrs ago
Japanese term

ベタ組み

Japanese to English Tech/Engineering Engineering (general)
ロボット・エンジンは実はベタ組みなんです。

The question is, "What OS does the robot engine use?"

I know that ベタ打ち means to type something out without formatting it, but what does ベタ組み mean? Glova says, "solid," but that doesn't make any sense. The next sentence of the answer says, ロボットOSについては、当社としてもどうあるべきか、まだ意見がまとまっていません。

So, the conversation goes:

Q: What OS is used in the robot engine?
A: Well, actually the robot engine is...The company has not yet decided what the OS should be.

"Beta" doesn't really sound right, either. It sounds like they just haven't decided what OS to use. Are they making their own?
Proposed translations (English)
2 directly coded (on the chip)
3 +1 beta version
1 beta robot programming

Discussion

casey (asker) Sep 19, 2006:
The question has been long closed, but for people referring to this question in the future I wanted to share what I have learned. ベタ is not 和製英語. In fact, it is a real, bona fide Japanese word. What threw me (and probably others) off was the katakana. In fact, it is also written in hiragana. べた組み produces many hits on Google. The Japanese word means solid. べた or ベタ is not to be confused with ベータ, which means "beta." In printing lingo,　べた組み means "solid, tight or close typesetting." When used with computers it means "tight coding," and in my context here where it was talking about not using an OS, it meant to directly code to the chip as sigmalanguage suggested.
Roddy Stegemann Sep 4, 2006:
This dialogue certainly ranks among the more humorous dialogues in which I have participated in a KudoZ.com forum. As an Adobe Photoshop user, learning from you about ベタ打ち and ベタ組み might even come in handy someday. Your client has my sympathy, though.
Roddy Stegemann Sep 4, 2006:
Specially adapted formatting used by Adobe for the production of visual text and the programming of robot engines are solar systems apart in terms of content. Even in the Adobe context, however, is it not likely that ベタ still means beta: α, β, γ, δ, . . .
casey (asker) Sep 4, 2006:
According to the following site, in a DTP context ベタ組み refers to the font-size and the line-height being the same value so there is no spacing between the lines:
http://www.furuoka.com/photoshop/logo_yougo.html#betagumi
Nothing to do with "beta."
Roddy Stegemann Sep 3, 2006:
I do not wish to appear stubborn, but no matter how you render the character 組み I believe you should stick with the word "beta". Try googling for something called Broadband Experimental Terascale Access and see, if this does not convince you!
casey (asker) Sep 3, 2006:
Hamo, please don't misunderstand my comments. I really and truly appreciate your help. Thank you very much for all the time you spent working on this question. I just couldn't choose your answer this time, because I thought sigmalanguage's answer was better.
casey (asker) Sep 3, 2006:
As I said before, I believe this is 和製英語 just like ベタ打ち . For example, here are some instructions I received from a different client:

WORDファイルの１頁目画像内は翻訳対象ですが、上書きができないため、画像の下にベタ打ちで訳文を記載ください。

Now, surely you don't think that has anything to do with Beta, do you?

What ベタ actually means, I have no idea. All I know is that when used with ベタ打ち it means to type directly into the file. It must be ベタ組み because they're coding, not typing, directly into the software, in this case, the robot engine.
Roddy Stegemann Sep 3, 2006:
Now that you have told us with certainty what you think ベタ is not, why do you not tell us what you think it is. Would it not be in everyone's interest to know -- especially those of us who have tried to help you?
sigmalanguage Sep 1, 2006:
What is this エンジン? I thought it means the core module of the software, but you wrote "IN the robot engine". Is this engine a physical thing?
Can Altinbay Sep 1, 2006:
Maybe it means cobbled together from this and that.
sigmalanguage Sep 1, 2006:
So they are not using any OS. It is possible to run a computer without any operating systems.
I would say 直組み in this context, but this sort of terms can differ from community to community.
casey (asker) Sep 1, 2006:
I found another hint later on in the interview:

しかし、OSを使って時分割処理をやらせると、ご存知のようにかなり時間を費やしますから、OSを使わずベタ組みなんです。

So whatever this ベタ組み is it's not an OS.

Proposed translations

6 hrs
Selected

directly coded (on the chip)

As I wrote in the Ask Asker note, this robot control engine is not coded on any operating system. It directly drives the microchip.

I am quite sure about my interpretation of ベタ組み, but I am not so sure about the translation. There may be a better one.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 Stunden (2006-09-01 12:33:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Keep in mind that this is a real-time system. For time-critical systems like when you want to respond to a stimulus in a milli second or micro second level, it is often better to go without an operating system. Modern office-use operating systems (like MS-Windows) are totally useless. Older single task oeprating systems are much better, but not ideal. A lot of operating systems have been developed to handle such time-critical jobs, so probably they are still wondering which one is the best.
Another possibility is that they want to save any milli second or micro second. Any operating system slows things down (that is the
nature of it), so they are looking for an operating system with the least overhead. I think this is what is implied when they said "OSを使って時分割処理をやらせると、ご存知のようにかなり時間を費やしますから、OSを使わずベタ組みなんです."

It is also not surprising that they are going to develop their custom-made operating system.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 Stunden (2006-09-01 13:13:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think I haven't finished off the explanation above .... Since they were not sure which OS to use, they coded the robot control engine without using any operating sytem. Apparently they are still looking for an OS, so they might rewrite the code in the future for the OS.

(Sorry for the long and lumpy explanation. Maybe I should learn to keep things shorter.)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you everyone, for your help. Since the question is asking "What OS are you using?" and they're saying, "We don't use an OS," I'm going with sigmalanguage's answer. ベタ in this case cannot be the English (Greek) "Beta;" it just would not make any sense whatsoever. "
7 hrs

beta robot programming

Microsoft News Tracker article titled: Microsoft announces beta robot programming environment. ... Microsoft has licensed the PhysX™ engine from AGEIA™, ...
www.hunterstrat.com/news/2006/06/20/microsoft-announces-bet... - 38k

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2006-09-01 14:06:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

2. Embedded program

A mobile agent (One of Mindstorms NXT robots, assembled and programmed by students in Afeka college) uses a simple embedded program that analyses sensor ...
www.javaschool.com/about/robots.html - 13k

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2006-09-01 14:07:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Embedded software allows users to program their own robot application ... The FlexPendant-SDK has been part of the ABB software product Robot Application ...
www02.abb.com/global/gad/gad02077.nsf/lupLongContent/013D637266F2F99FC1257192002D42A3 - 22k
Something went wrong...
+1
23 mins

beta version

A beta version of any software is experimental software. Does this not mean that the installed　operating system is experimental?

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Note added at 38 Min. (2006-09-01 06:24:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The word 組 can be used in a variety of ways. In the printing world for example it means to set print. Thus, one can easily see how the word could be used to mean install. Think of the word 組み込む for example. It often is used to mean insert. In this context it appears to mean that a beta OS has been installed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 54 Min. (2006-09-01 06:40:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It does not have to be an OS; it could be any installed piece of software.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 Stunde (2006-09-01 06:56:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Software is applied in layers, the most basic of which is machine language. The ベタ組 could be referring to the machine language. It, too, can be a beta version.

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Note added at 20 Stunden (2006-09-02 02:43:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Although I strongly believe that a translator should understand well what he translates, in the end you must use vocabulary that is designed for the target audience and reflects the author's intent. What robot programmer would not understand the term "beta version" in this now better understood context?

Thanks to sigmalanguage and VN Ganesh it should not be clear to you that ベタ組 is not 和製英語, but a fairly direct Japanese rendering of what is implied by the author.
Note from asker:
Then they would have said ベタ版 would they not? 組 to me suggests that they are using a combination of different OS's.
Thank you for your help. Please take a look at my latest note. This can't be an OS.
But then the guy would be answering the question "What OS is used for the robot engine?" with "Well, actually, we use beta software." That would insinuate that they are using a beta OS, but later he is saying there is no OS. I don't think this is talking about "beta" anything. I think this is one of those 和製英語 words.
Peer comment(s):
agree karmarkara : 組 also means assembly. Therefore 'beta version' also means assembled (& floated) for test. 版 also is used for 'version' but normally in terms of publication.
2 days 3 hrs
Many thanks, Arvind.
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