Nov 18, 2011 15:24
13 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Italian term
Name of police force in Venice in medieval times
Italian
Art/Literary
History
Venetian police in medieval times
I am translating a story written in French but the tale takes place in medieval Italy. Someone wants to call in the police force in Venice. In French they use maréchaussée, which would be a mounted constabulary. I'd like to know from specialists in medieval Italian history what the Venetian police would have been called in Italian at that time. I realise there was no Italy back then, so it really centres on Venice. Knowing the English would be good too but it would be very helpful to have the Italian word.
I hope I've posted this in the right place. It's almost an Italian-Italian question but since I have to write in English -and would reply to people in English- this may be the best language pair for posting.
I hope I've posted this in the right place. It's almost an Italian-Italian question but since I have to write in English -and would reply to people in English- this may be the best language pair for posting.
Responses
| 3 +1 | La Forza / I birri |
BdiL
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| 3 +1 | variable (see explanation) |
Lorraine Buckley (X)
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Change log
Nov 18, 2011 15:46: writeaway changed "Language pair" from "Italian to English" to "Italian"
Responses
+1
1 hr
Selected
La Forza / I birri
As far as I know there was not a codified name to designate the police force.
Generally speaking in medieval times the term La Forza (implying "police" / forza di polizia) was used. Thus, "chiamate la forza!" = summon the (police) force!
Or you might employ "I birri", meaning (old Italian) "the policemen".
Since I doubt a historical aplomb is required here, this should engender no harm, but correct me if I'm wrong.
In alternative, should you give it a more Venetian flavor, I'd suggest to spell it the way they would in Venezia (Venice) in Venetian language: La Forsa. I put block initials for sake of clarity.
Or even complete it this way "La Forsa de la Serenisima Republica" or, simplyfying, "La Forsa de la Serenisima" as the "serenissima Repubblica" used to be plainly called "la Serenissima". Up to you to switch between "La Forsa" and a long form.
HTH S-ciao
Maurissio (Maurizio)
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-11-18 17:22:55 GMT)
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In Venice they'd have said "servo suo" (> "s-ciavo!" --> "s-ciao --> ciao), but false you can't write in Italian!, just "molte" grazie or (if you reverse it) "grazie molto". "Molto grazie" sounds odd to an Italian ear. M.
Generally speaking in medieval times the term La Forza (implying "police" / forza di polizia) was used. Thus, "chiamate la forza!" = summon the (police) force!
Or you might employ "I birri", meaning (old Italian) "the policemen".
Since I doubt a historical aplomb is required here, this should engender no harm, but correct me if I'm wrong.
In alternative, should you give it a more Venetian flavor, I'd suggest to spell it the way they would in Venezia (Venice) in Venetian language: La Forsa. I put block initials for sake of clarity.
Or even complete it this way "La Forsa de la Serenisima Republica" or, simplyfying, "La Forsa de la Serenisima" as the "serenissima Repubblica" used to be plainly called "la Serenissima". Up to you to switch between "La Forsa" and a long form.
HTH S-ciao
Maurissio (Maurizio)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-11-18 17:22:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In Venice they'd have said "servo suo" (> "s-ciavo!" --> "s-ciao --> ciao), but false you can't write in Italian!, just "molte" grazie or (if you reverse it) "grazie molto". "Molto grazie" sounds odd to an Italian ear. M.
Note from asker:
| That sounds great! I'll use the Italian and just put the English in ( ). It's a book they want to turn into a film and it's important to keep the 'flavour' of the time and place. Molto grazie! Mi scusi se non so scrivere in italiano. |
| oops. been out of Italy for too many years (purtroppo). allora, molte grazie! |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you. "
+1
1 hr
variable (see explanation)
In Una eterna condanna: la figura del carnefice nella società italiana ... By Enrica Guerra, she says p. 52 that "cavalieri, fanti, berrovieri" or armed men of all sorts, they are the private forces of each judiciary, "so we call them 'police' for convenience sake..... She also says that in the Middle Ages the Latin term 'politia' was used but meant public order and political organization, never an independent organized force for crime repression etc. Doesn't solve your problem but hope it helps!
Note from asker:
| Thanks-that's very useful information. |
| Thank you for you help. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
P.L.F. Persio
: maybe "berrovieri" could do the trick: http://books.google.it/books?id=YA71glk4MHYC&pg=PA394&lpg=PA...
25 mins
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Thanks, missdutch. Interesting to see in a dictionary that berroviere originally meant 'highwayman' and developed into 'birro' = policeman (cf derogatory term for police still in use today: sbirro!)
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Reference comments
37 mins
Discussion
I would put 'gendarmerie' personally - it's not confined to France.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshalcy