Jan 23, 2016 08:24
9 yrs ago
31 viewers *
Hungarian term

Telephely

Hungarian to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general)
OK, an old one. My problem with it (as with székhely, by the way) is that my translators tend to use different English translations for it, and - if only for the sake of consistency - it would be good to have one term that fits all situations. Some alternatives: fixed/permanent (business) establishment - the trouble with this is it doesn't necessarily exclude the székhely, or in fact a fiók (branch office), which are specifically distinguished from a telephely under Hungarian law (specifically, see the VAT Act for a definition). "Business site" - same problem, and too vague, but I admit to using it on occasion. What it ACTUALLY means, and a translation that would at least make sense, is "Other registered business site/establishment/place of business", but such a term does not seem to exist. Any ideas?

Discussion

@Ildikó could not agree more - well, if that were the case our job would be so much easier!
Ildiko Santana Jan 24, 2016:
Context? Dear Asker -
You wrote, "it would be good to have one term that fits all situations" - well, if that were the case our job would be so much easier! I think all of the possible translations you mention above could work - depending on the particular context. Site, place of business, premises, etc., these terms do exist. If you look up telephely in any dictionary or glossary, you will most likely find these terms and examples of usage. Real life examples can be very helpful!
@Annamari could not agree more, and whatever answer will be chosen it is OK :)
Annamaria Amik Jan 23, 2016:
@Adiel/Impact There are tons of official documents from (real) English-speaking countries, such as Australia, or from weighty international organisations that use the exact expression "registered office or a place of business", suggesting that no further differentiation is necessary:
Australian Competition and Consumer Legislation 2011: "where the person is a body corporate which does not have a registered office or a place of business in Australia"
OECD publication: Global Forum on Transparency...: "... and if a body corporate it must have its registered office or a place of business in Hong Kong...".

The UK Companies Act uses the term "place of business" with this specific meaning.

I fully agree with Erzsi, this discussion is becoming pointless.
@Annamari én ebbe a vitába belefáradtam, amíg ti itt boncolgattatok valamit, amit szerintem immár három kérdésben alfától omegáig kiveséztünk, azalatt az idő alatt meg lehet csinálni egy társasági szerződést. Menjen be a kérdező az első közjegyzőhöz, ez lesz benne, ha angolul lekéri a magyar cégkivonatot, ezt használja az Igazságügyminisztérium, az OFFI, a MOKK, ne idegesítsetek már, menjünk dolgozni vagy aludni. Ragozzuk itt nagy fából vaskarikát: minek is? Értelme van? Ha dolgozni akar, mert bele kell írnia egy iratba, akkor tegye bele azt, amit a hivatalos verzióban jóváhagytak huszoniksz éve. Ez pont olyan hiábavaló vita, hogy a felony meg a second degree murder minek felel meg pontosan magyarul.
Annamaria Amik Jan 23, 2016:
@Erzsi / Premises Premises simply means the building, the actual physical place where business is carried out:
https://liverpool.gov.uk/business/trading-standards/trade-ad...
Where business premises are shared by up to five companies the registered name must be:
easily seen by visitors
continuously displayed
Annamaria Amik Jan 23, 2016:
NB: the registered office is NOT necessarily where most of the business takes place. The principal place of business (központi ügyintézés helye) may be a different place than the registered office.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr

place of business/business establishment

A good question that could help to create consistency in HU-EN translation.

First of all, telephely is a general term for any place of business other than the registered office, where certain conditions for doing business on a regular basis are met. This can be located either in the same town as the registered office or in another town or even country. If it is in another town or country, it is fióktelep (branch). See here: http://www.drlittner.hu/mit-jelent-a-telephely-es-a-fioktele...
So fióktelep is a special telephely, special in that it must be located in another town.

According to Hungarian laws, telephely is a permanent place of business, which should be registered in the Companies Register.

The term secondary was used in a FR-EN question and I was tempted to propose it in order to avoid the elusive term other. However, in many cases, a company's registered office is only an address they use for registration purposes and never conduct any actual business there other than service of documents. So secondary could be problematic in a case like that.

Quoting from a guideline available on gov.uk:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...
Registration of an overseas company is only required when it has some degree of physical presence in the UK (such as a place of business or branch) through which it carries on business.

Another guideline published by Routledge, A Guide to The Companies Act 2006, also suggests that the pair place of business/branch is the same dichotomy we know as telephely/fióktelep in Hungary.
https://books.google.ro/books?id=HaYmUAGllvsC&printsec=front...
The place of business regime predated the Directive requirements, and continued to apply to places of business which are not branches. A 'place of business' encompassed both a presence less substantial than a branch and one where the central management and control of the company was in the UK.


So I assume place of business is a good term for telephely and I strongly recommend it (rather than business establishment) because it is the term used with the same meaning in the UK Companies Act. If you insist on using a more specific term, you could say permanent place of business.

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Note added at 1 hr (2016-01-23 10:09:51 GMT)
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I see your point, but please note the guideline I quoted from gov.uk. It DOES rule out registered office, because the guideline is addressed to overseas companies i.e. those with the registered office in another country. There's nothing to suggest that place of business includes registered office.

You could say other place of business if that helps to dissipate your concerns.

How about office or other fixed place of business, which is a US term? https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.864-7
The law of a foreign country shall not be controlling in determining whether a nonresident alien individual or a foreign corporation has an office or other fixed place of business.

Please read that whole section, because it does clarify what fixed place of business means in the US. It's practically the same thing as the definition of telephely in Hungarian laws.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Annamaria, but the problem is that place of business does not rule out the registered head office, e.g. in the case of my company, that is the main "place of business". Therefore that term says nothing about its being distinct from the head office.
Also, you can see from your link that "place of business" covers the head office as well ('place of business or branch', (azaz székhely, telephely vagy fiók)
Peer comment(s):

neutral Erzsébet Ráczné Czopyk : "If you insist on using a more specific term" ??? at least would be good to know why he is insisting... and what kind of document it is...
2 hrs
agree Ildiko Santana : ...or SITE. All three options were mentioned by Asker and all three might work - depending on the context. I don't believe there is one exclusive ultimate solution. Without any context there is nothing to rely on when trying to find "the" specific term.
21 hrs
Thanks, and I agree. Often in HU texts telephely is used simply to describe a certain place (=site). I offered an answer in the light of Impact/Adiel's other questions (gazdasági letelepedés which can be either székhely or állandó telephely).
Something went wrong...
-1
3 hrs

business premise

SAMPLE MEMORANDUM OF THE LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Memorandum of Association
We, the undersigned members, employing the sample memorandum1, establish the Memorandum of Association
of the following limited liability company as follows:

1. The corporate name, registered seat, business premises, branch office(s) of the Company
1.1. Corporate name of the Company:

Mondhatjátok, hogy hülye vagyok, de legalább következetesen.
Ha 15 évig elfogadták mindenhol csont nélkül, így fordítja a Bajzában a nagy Testvér is, nem fogom magam gyötörni.

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Note added at 2837 nap (2023-10-30 12:50:22 GMT)
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business premiseS
Note from asker:
Erzsi, that extract you sent above I can see immediately has NOT been translated by a native speaker of English, and that's the problem. There is no such thing as "registered seat" in formal business English - indeed, my translators use that very expression as an immediate give-away that a translator is not English. "Corporate name of the Company" - absolutely ridiculous. So please don't use these Hunglish templates. business premises is also WRONG for this term, which is why we are discussing it.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Annamaria Amik : UK-ben ez egyszerűen a kereskedelmi célra használt helyet, épületet jelenti. http://www.leeds.gov.uk/Business/Pages/BusinessPremises.aspx és https://www.gov.uk/browse/business/premises-rates Mi több, business premises lehet több cég közös helye, ld discus
13 mins
azt se tudod/juk, mire kell neki, mibe kell neki, honnan vette, én nem lélekbúvárnak jöttem ide és bevallom, mostmár méregbe is gurultam, ne rágjuk tovább a csontot, ha ennyire pontosan óhajtja a kérdező, akkor fáradjon be a Dr. Bárándy Ügyvédi Irodába
disagree Adiel Stephenson : Again, it doesn't differentiate, and by the way, it's premiseS, so no, I don't agree with that.
2 hrs
Adiel, thank you for your correction.
Something went wrong...
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