Stephen R Schoening (asker) Oct 23, 2014:

Thanks everyone! Thanks, everyone for all the information. Yes, I guess I was being very conscientious when asking this question, I used Jo's suggestion. It is good to have all the background information about the currency reform, etc., most of which I did not know about.
Stephen

Björn Vrooman Oct 16, 2014:

Edit of third quote from October 15, 19:24! The third quote was actually not correct, I apologize. For some reason, I quoted §43 (2), instead of (1) further below:

"(1) In Ehesachen ist der Verfahrenswert unter Berücksichtigung aller Umstände des Einzelfalls, insbesondere des Umfangs und der Bedeutung der Sache und der Vermögens- und Einkommensverhältnisse der Ehegatten, nach Ermessen zu bestimmen. Der Wert darf nicht unter 3 000 Euro und nicht über 1 Million Euro angenommen werden."
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/famgkg/BJNR266600008.html

The rest of the text is still the same. Don't get hung up on the 3,000 euros - this has probably changed over the years :)

Thus, I am going to agree with Jo as well. Ultimately, I think Phil put you on the right track with "value of the estate". German notary fees are based on "Geschäftswert" (in the law: "Verfahrenswert") and this includes the things I listed at 23:28 today.

Björn Vrooman Oct 16, 2014:

Back to topic "Die Notarkosten für einen Ehevertrag hängen wie alle Notargebühren nicht vom Zeitaufwand, sondern vom betroffenen Geschäftswert ab. Dieser bemisst sich im wesentlichen nach dem Nettowert des vorhandenen Vermögens, also der Summe der Verkehrswerte z.B. der Immobilie, des Autos, von Kapitalanlagen etc. abzüglich der vorhanden Schulden.

Für Einzelregelungen wie z.B. eine Modifizierung des Unterhalts, gibt es speziellere Vorschriften, die typischerweise zu einem geringeren Geschäftswert führen."
http://notare-voelklingen.de/infothek_ehevertrag-10.shtml

I quoted the paragraph about an Ehevertrag this time, in order to best explain what's meant by "Wert" - it should be indeed "Geschäftswert". I looked for "adoption" beforehand for a simple reason (same link, different section):

"Eine Abstammung zwischen Eltern und Kind kann über die natürliche Abstammung hinaus auch auf durch einen Rechtsakt (Beschluss des Familiengerichts) begründet werden (juristische Abstammung). Das Gesetz nennt dieses Verfahren die Annahme als Kind (Adoption)."

Björn Vrooman Oct 15, 2014:

@Andreas Excuse my historically inaccurate statement below :) Yes, the currency reform took place when Germany was still under allied occupation.


On a side note, here's the English Wiki article on the currency reform: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mark

And on the East Mark:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_mark

PS: The predecessor of the FRG, however, was the Trizone - don't forget the French, after all!

Haven't heard this one before: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trizonesien-Song

Andreas Kjeldsen Oct 15, 2014:

@Jo: The FRG was formally founded in May 1949, but there was a predecessor in the form of the 'Bizone', which was created out of the UK and US occupation zones in January 1947. The GDR was founded a little later, in October 1949.

And yes, what the two German states called themselves and each other at various point in time, that's a whole subject in itself...

Björn Vrooman Oct 15, 2014:

Thank you, Phil! Not sure myself how notaries call it.

Maybe that might help, too:
http://www.spokanecounty.org/clerk/content.aspx?c=1946
https://www.kssos.org/business/notary_public/certifications....

Regarding the 3%: I get it now, it's 35 Pfennig (or nowadays, cents) on the DM 12. Would actually be 36, but apparently nobody cared :) It's the VAT on the fee.

@Jo
FRG = Federal Republic of Germany = Bundesrepublik Deutschland = BRD

I was born in East Germany, which was the GDR = German Democratic Republic. I was too young, however, to really grasp the whole reunification business in 1989 :)

Jo Hance Oct 15, 2014:

All, I am suddenly feeling far too young for this, but am thankful for the discussion, err, the FRG, did that exist in '48? If it did, wasn't that the 'east German' side? Ironically. Or was that just how it was translated at the time? Apropos, I was born in 'west Germany', as stated on my first passport, issued circa 1982. Second passport issued, ten years later, post reunification says 'Germany'. Just a thought...

philgoddard Oct 15, 2014:

Great research, Björn! I don't know if it provides a final answer. I'd be tempted to put a translator's note giving the possible meanings. Of course, it's possible that Stephen is being too conscientious and this is of no interest to the customer :-)

Björn Vrooman Oct 15, 2014:

See also http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gnotkg/BJNR258610013.html

Here, please have a look at §34 about notary fees and "Geschäftswert".

And, §101 for adoptions:
"In Angelegenheiten, die die Annahme eines Minderjährigen betreffen, beträgt der Geschäftswert 5 000 Euro."

BTW, did anyone notice how the 3% charge doesn't match anything on the list?

Björn Vrooman Oct 15, 2014:

@Jo, Phil, and Stephen It may be interesting to know that the FRG had its currency reform in June of 1948 (from Reichsmark to D-Mark). At least, according to Wiki, the exchange rate was: 0.238095 US$ = 1.00 DM
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Währungsreform_1948_(Westdeutsc...

Thus, 2000 would have been between 400 and 500 dollars. Even in those times, you probably would call that next to nothing (a third of the price of a car!):
http://www.tvhistory.tv/1948 QF.htm

To Jo's question: § 43(1) most likely refers to
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/famgkg/BJNR266600008.html

"(2) Für die Einkommensverhältnisse ist das in drei Monaten erzielte Nettoeinkommen der Ehegatten einzusetzen."

Numbers may have changed, so I am including this one too:
"(1) In einer Kindschaftssache, die
1. die Übertragung oder Entziehung der elterlichen Sorge oder eines Teils der elterlichen Sorge,
2. das Umgangsrecht einschließlich der Umgangspflegschaft,
3. das Recht auf Auskunft über die persönlichen Verhältnisse des Kindes oder
4. die Kindesherausgabe betrifft, beträgt der Verfahrenswert 3 000 Euro."
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gnotkg/BJNR258610013.html

Wert could be income, but may probably be "Verfahrenswert".

Stephen R Schoening (asker) Oct 15, 2014:

Thanks for ideas. I am doing this translation from a hard copy and right now am not at home, but I will take another look at it. The suggestion that the 2000 is an estate value is a good guess. The purpose of the document is to make the child legitimate, which may have to do with inheritance.
Otherwise Jo's suggestion is good just to keep it simple and maybe add a translator's note.

Jo Hance Oct 15, 2014:

I agree Phil, a lot of money then!

philgoddard Oct 15, 2014:

It could be that the fees are based on the "Wert". It's such a large amount by 1948 standards that an estate is all I can think of.

Jo Hance Oct 15, 2014:

Agree with Phil The following ref. to para. 43(1) could reference another document recording this estate/inheritance?

philgoddard Oct 15, 2014:

Why was the certificate issued? Was it anything to do with an inheritance? If so, it could be the value of the estate.