Sep 22, 2006 07:09
18 yrs ago
91 viewers *
German term
Geschäftsführer (of a GmbH)
German to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
company law
This may sound easy - but there are many translations for Geschäftsführer. This GmbH has no less than 8! Can they all be *Managing Directors* - one translation. Or simply *Managers* ?
Sentence: Sind mehrere Geschäftsführer bestellt, so wird die Gesellschaft durch zwei Geschäftsführer oder durch einen Geschäftsführer gemeinsam mit einem Prokuristen vertreten.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Sentence: Sind mehrere Geschäftsführer bestellt, so wird die Gesellschaft durch zwei Geschäftsführer oder durch einen Geschäftsführer gemeinsam mit einem Prokuristen vertreten.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +1 | Director |
Kieran McCann
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3 +4 | Managing Director |
Monika Leit
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4 | Geschäftsführer [approx. Managing Director] |
Joern Gaedcke
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3 | General Manager |
Barbara Cashin (X)
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Proposed translations
+1
4 hrs
Selected
Director
just for the record/to start a debate, and to show that even standard translations of terms are less obvious when you look at them closely:
'Geschäftsführer' is a legally defined office under German law with clear rights and responsibilities: every GmbH must have at least one 'Geschäftsführer'. The corresponding UK term is 'director', which is also a legally defined office with defined rights and obligations. Every limited company must have at least one director, every public company at least two.
As far as I am aware, 'managing director' is not a legally defined term in the UK and a company certainly does not have to have a 'managing director' (nor is there a statutory shareholding requirement, btw). It is therefore not an exact equivalent for 'Geschäftsführer' and, as ever, the question of how to translate the latter depends on the context.
It is traditional in the UK for the head of the board of directors to be called the 'managing director' (US: CEO) and if a German company has one guy occupying a similar position, it seems absolutely right to call him the 'managing director' as well.
More than one managing director, while originally a US practice, is also not uncommon, and there's no reason why a GmbH with two 'Geschäftsführer' should not be said to have two 'managing directors'.
But eight is a different matter. If we are talking about 'managing director' as simply an internal distinction as in eg many investment banks and so on which may have dozens of them, then fair enough. But no limited company would actually have eight 'managing directors' on the board: the 'managing director' is the guy in charge and you can't have everyone in charge. There would actually be eight directors, one of whom is the managing director. A German company with eight Geschäftsführer, therefore, cannot sensibly be said to have eight 'managing directors': they should be called 'directors'.
Having said that, 'managing director' may be so entrenched that they object to being called anything else and may want to be called that for status reasons. But if we are talking about the legal structure and officers of the company, then I think it would be wrong to describe a German GmbH as having eight 'managing directors'.
This is all based on the UK, US may have a different take.
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Note added at 1 day2 mins (2006-09-23 07:11:47 GMT)
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@ Camilla: what is your context? You say 'of a GmbH' but GmbHs do not have a Vorstand (Aktiengesellschaft) nor do they have persönlich haftende Gesellschafter (Personengesellschaften). 'Vertretungsberechtigte' can include Prokuristen.
'Geschäftsführer' is a legally defined office under German law with clear rights and responsibilities: every GmbH must have at least one 'Geschäftsführer'. The corresponding UK term is 'director', which is also a legally defined office with defined rights and obligations. Every limited company must have at least one director, every public company at least two.
As far as I am aware, 'managing director' is not a legally defined term in the UK and a company certainly does not have to have a 'managing director' (nor is there a statutory shareholding requirement, btw). It is therefore not an exact equivalent for 'Geschäftsführer' and, as ever, the question of how to translate the latter depends on the context.
It is traditional in the UK for the head of the board of directors to be called the 'managing director' (US: CEO) and if a German company has one guy occupying a similar position, it seems absolutely right to call him the 'managing director' as well.
More than one managing director, while originally a US practice, is also not uncommon, and there's no reason why a GmbH with two 'Geschäftsführer' should not be said to have two 'managing directors'.
But eight is a different matter. If we are talking about 'managing director' as simply an internal distinction as in eg many investment banks and so on which may have dozens of them, then fair enough. But no limited company would actually have eight 'managing directors' on the board: the 'managing director' is the guy in charge and you can't have everyone in charge. There would actually be eight directors, one of whom is the managing director. A German company with eight Geschäftsführer, therefore, cannot sensibly be said to have eight 'managing directors': they should be called 'directors'.
Having said that, 'managing director' may be so entrenched that they object to being called anything else and may want to be called that for status reasons. But if we are talking about the legal structure and officers of the company, then I think it would be wrong to describe a German GmbH as having eight 'managing directors'.
This is all based on the UK, US may have a different take.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day2 mins (2006-09-23 07:11:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@ Camilla: what is your context? You say 'of a GmbH' but GmbHs do not have a Vorstand (Aktiengesellschaft) nor do they have persönlich haftende Gesellschafter (Personengesellschaften). 'Vertretungsberechtigte' can include Prokuristen.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your explanation. I have to agree with your logic but confusion still reigns. Reference is made to Vorstand, Leitungsorgan, geschäftsführende Direktoren, persönlich haftende Gesellschafter, Geschäftsführer (*), Vertretungsberechtigte in the title listing all these *manging* or simply 'directors'. Do you still maintain "director" only. This is an open question and help is gratefully welcomed. Camilla |
The context is a Gesellschaftsvertrag of a company with the structure of a Verwaltungsgesellschaft mbH. Thank you. Camilla |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I used director as Kieran's explanation made sense in terms of the context of the contract."
+4
9 mins
Managing Director
I'd stick to Managing Director.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Lydia Molea
: that's what I always use
1 min
|
agree |
René Laszlo
37 mins
|
agree |
Carolyn Brice
: Me too, you can have several managing directors
1 hr
|
agree |
Julia Lipeles
5 hrs
|
1 hr
General Manager
I would not use Managing Director for the UK/Irish environment. It has legal implications. To be a Managing Director, you must have shares in the company. A General Manager is generally an employee and salaried. I think that there can be more than one General Manager.
18 hrs
Geschäftsführer [approx. Managing Director]
There can be no direct translation, because the legal systems and respective frames of reference are very different. As pointed out by the other contributors.
However, 'Director' alone would be insufficient in my opinion, because a director under Singapore law (similar to English law) does not have to have any part in the running of the company. A 'Geschäftsführer' always has.
'(General) Manager' would also not be sufficient, because they may not have any responsibility in the relationship of the company with the legal authorities (e.g. responsibility for filing accounts).
Therefore I would leave the German term and use the English in brackets as an indicator of the function.
However, 'Director' alone would be insufficient in my opinion, because a director under Singapore law (similar to English law) does not have to have any part in the running of the company. A 'Geschäftsführer' always has.
'(General) Manager' would also not be sufficient, because they may not have any responsibility in the relationship of the company with the legal authorities (e.g. responsibility for filing accounts).
Therefore I would leave the German term and use the English in brackets as an indicator of the function.
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