Mar 19, 2012 21:26
12 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term
Gerichts- und Feldschieder-Mitglied
German to English
Social Sciences
Genealogy
obsolete occupational designations
I have found two references to this occupational title. First, when his wife died in 1774, she is referred to as the "eheliche Hausfrau des Ehrsamen Buergers, Schneider-Meisters, eines Ehrsamen Gerichts- und Feldschieder-Mitglied, N.N." When the husband died in 1789, he is described as "einen Ehrsamen Feldschied-Mitglied..."
When I Google this phrase and similar phrases, I find such things as "Mitglied des Gerichts und Feldschieder" and "Gerichts- und Feldschieder." But nothing I can find really EXPLAINS the occupational designation or offers any translation.
When I Google this phrase and similar phrases, I find such things as "Mitglied des Gerichts und Feldschieder" and "Gerichts- und Feldschieder." But nothing I can find really EXPLAINS the occupational designation or offers any translation.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | honorary assessor and county/city/village land surveyor |
Kirsten Bodart
|
References
| Feldschieder |
thefastshow
|
| Feldschieder |
Coqueiro
|
| reference |
liz askew
|
Proposed translations
+1
16 hrs
Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
smile, it's us
Native in: Dutch 
, English (Variant: UK)
Works in: Dutch to English, English to Dutch, Flemish to English, and 7 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
honorary assessor and county/city/village land surveyor
Not obsolete, as it seems. Incredibly, but true, they still exist.
As I understand it, these people have existed since Roman times (!) and have the task of deciding where boundary marking stones should be. They are sworn for life it seems and there are as many as needed for the city, village or county (as there are bailiffs and used to be chimney sweeps like this until 2012). A member of such a group must be born in the place, be a 'citizen' for at least ten years (I suppose this means having the right to vote and have the status of a citizen in the Roman sense). And they must have mastered calculus and writing as well as not given to drink or other abuse and be a peaceful person. ;)
As they were the only people in the community who knew exactly where a marking stone was to be put, they also had judicial powers to settle disputes about land boundaries. In older times (before satellite-aided land surveying) they put secret markings in the shapes of pieces of glass, ceramics or special seals under the stone or made a sign on the bottom of it, only known to those who had put the stone and to their successors so as to ensure that the stone was not moved (the secret marking would be gone in that case).
Their function is still carried on today, although the real land surveying work is of course given to people who know more about it and who have the tools, but they are still present and in many cases where new marking stones should be put (apparently) they still have the respect of the community, so that when they show the desired location of the marking stone, because they declare to have found their secret marking, they will be believed without further ado.
'Gerichtsmitglied refers to the fact that this person can act as the assistant of a judge. It is a synonym for Gerichtsbeisitzer (Heidelberg University dictionary). For a definiton, see my reference.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2012-03-20 14:02:51 GMT)
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You could put 'honorary' between brackets. 'Ehrsam' actually means 'honoured', but it sounds a bit odd in this context.
As I understand it, these people have existed since Roman times (!) and have the task of deciding where boundary marking stones should be. They are sworn for life it seems and there are as many as needed for the city, village or county (as there are bailiffs and used to be chimney sweeps like this until 2012). A member of such a group must be born in the place, be a 'citizen' for at least ten years (I suppose this means having the right to vote and have the status of a citizen in the Roman sense). And they must have mastered calculus and writing as well as not given to drink or other abuse and be a peaceful person. ;)
As they were the only people in the community who knew exactly where a marking stone was to be put, they also had judicial powers to settle disputes about land boundaries. In older times (before satellite-aided land surveying) they put secret markings in the shapes of pieces of glass, ceramics or special seals under the stone or made a sign on the bottom of it, only known to those who had put the stone and to their successors so as to ensure that the stone was not moved (the secret marking would be gone in that case).
Their function is still carried on today, although the real land surveying work is of course given to people who know more about it and who have the tools, but they are still present and in many cases where new marking stones should be put (apparently) they still have the respect of the community, so that when they show the desired location of the marking stone, because they declare to have found their secret marking, they will be believed without further ado.
'Gerichtsmitglied refers to the fact that this person can act as the assistant of a judge. It is a synonym for Gerichtsbeisitzer (Heidelberg University dictionary). For a definiton, see my reference.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2012-03-20 14:02:51 GMT)
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You could put 'honorary' between brackets. 'Ehrsam' actually means 'honoured', but it sounds a bit odd in this context.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Vielen Dank!"
Reference comments
48 mins
Reference:
Feldschieder
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-DE/2002-11...
A Feldschieder was a land-surveyor. That means
he was a technician, a geometer of land-surveying,
not a judge.
Source: Grammatisch-kritisches Wörterbuch
von J.C. Adelung (1811):
Der Feldmesser, des -s, plur. ut nom. sing.
ein Künstler, welcher Felder und ganze Ländereyen
ausmisset und in Grund leget; im Oberd. ein
Untergänger, Siebner, Feldscheider, Feldschieder,
im Brandenb. ein Landmesser.
A Feldschieder was a land-surveyor. That means
he was a technician, a geometer of land-surveying,
not a judge.
Source: Grammatisch-kritisches Wörterbuch
von J.C. Adelung (1811):
Der Feldmesser, des -s, plur. ut nom. sing.
ein Künstler, welcher Felder und ganze Ländereyen
ausmisset und in Grund leget; im Oberd. ein
Untergänger, Siebner, Feldscheider, Feldschieder,
im Brandenb. ein Landmesser.
32 mins
Reference:
Feldschieder
http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~cd2/drw/e/fe/ldsc/hied/...
http://www.wuerzburg.de/de/uebersicht/stadtinfo/wml/teil5/33...
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2012-03-19 22:31:51 GMT)
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Markscheider / bounder, mine surveyor
is a somewhat similar term
http://www.wuerzburg.de/de/uebersicht/stadtinfo/wml/teil5/33...
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Note added at 1 Stunde (2012-03-19 22:31:51 GMT)
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Markscheider / bounder, mine surveyor
is a somewhat similar term
47 mins
Reference:
reference
Genealogy - Eisenbeiß Family History & Genealogy - Webs
eisenbeisz.webs.com/Genealogy/EisenbeiszGenealogy.txt
aa29: HANNSS EYSENBEIß Einwohner 1620 Untertam des Balthasar Friedrich ..... Schäufler 1680 Mitglied des Gerichts (Member of Court) in Freudenstadt oo ...
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Note added at 56 mins (2012-03-19 22:22:53 GMT)
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Feldmesser
www.burgfuehrer-hohenneuffen.de/.../99-feldmes... - Translate this page
8. Juli 2009 – Personen, zum Theil aus den Mitgliedern des Magistrats, und zum Theil aus ... Der Felduntergang hatte wie jedes Gericht einen Präsidenten. .... Dreier, Eidbrüder, Feldgeschworene, Feld-richter, Feldschieder, Feldsteußler, ...
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Note added at 57 mins (2012-03-19 22:24:26 GMT)
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RootsWeb: GEN-DE-L Re: What is a Feldschieder
archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/.../1038214012 - Translate this page
25. Nov. 2002 – I don't feel like I have learned anything > from this. Does anyone have a more contemporary definition? A Feldschieder was a land-surveyor.
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Note added at 59 mins (2012-03-19 22:25:37 GMT)
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Thomas Hickey wrote:
>
> In a translation of a Gamburg church record from the early 1800s I found
> that one of my ancestors was a feldschieder, which has been translated as an
> "arbitrator of field disputes". I don't feel like I have learned anything
> from this. Does anyone have a more contemporary definition?
A Feldschieder was a land-surveyor. That means
he was a technician, a geometer of land-surveying,
not a judge.
Source: Grammatisch-kritisches Wörterbuch
von J.C. Adelung (1811):
Der Feldmesser, des -s, plur. ut nom. sing.
ein Künstler, welcher Felder und ganze Ländereyen
ausmisset und in Grund leget; im Oberd. ein
Untergänger, Siebner, Feldscheider, Feldschieder,
im Brandenb. ein Landmesser.
Helge Robitzsch
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Note added at 1 hr (2012-03-19 22:47:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
hope this helps
I don't actually do German, but these references should help you to reach a conclusion.
eisenbeisz.webs.com/Genealogy/EisenbeiszGenealogy.txt
aa29: HANNSS EYSENBEIß Einwohner 1620 Untertam des Balthasar Friedrich ..... Schäufler 1680 Mitglied des Gerichts (Member of Court) in Freudenstadt oo ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2012-03-19 22:22:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Feldmesser
www.burgfuehrer-hohenneuffen.de/.../99-feldmes... - Translate this page
8. Juli 2009 – Personen, zum Theil aus den Mitgliedern des Magistrats, und zum Theil aus ... Der Felduntergang hatte wie jedes Gericht einen Präsidenten. .... Dreier, Eidbrüder, Feldgeschworene, Feld-richter, Feldschieder, Feldsteußler, ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 57 mins (2012-03-19 22:24:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
RootsWeb: GEN-DE-L Re: What is a Feldschieder
archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/.../1038214012 - Translate this page
25. Nov. 2002 – I don't feel like I have learned anything > from this. Does anyone have a more contemporary definition? A Feldschieder was a land-surveyor.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2012-03-19 22:25:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Thomas Hickey wrote:
>
> In a translation of a Gamburg church record from the early 1800s I found
> that one of my ancestors was a feldschieder, which has been translated as an
> "arbitrator of field disputes". I don't feel like I have learned anything
> from this. Does anyone have a more contemporary definition?
A Feldschieder was a land-surveyor. That means
he was a technician, a geometer of land-surveying,
not a judge.
Source: Grammatisch-kritisches Wörterbuch
von J.C. Adelung (1811):
Der Feldmesser, des -s, plur. ut nom. sing.
ein Künstler, welcher Felder und ganze Ländereyen
ausmisset und in Grund leget; im Oberd. ein
Untergänger, Siebner, Feldscheider, Feldschieder,
im Brandenb. ein Landmesser.
Helge Robitzsch
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-03-19 22:47:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
hope this helps
I don't actually do German, but these references should help you to reach a conclusion.
Discussion
I think these Feldschieders always have been members of a commitee.