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Wandlerüberhöhung
Anlagenüberspannung

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Schubmoment

English translation:

Deceleration torque

Added to glossary by Richard Stephen
Apr 27, 2018 15:16
6 yrs ago
7 viewers *
German term

Schubmoment

German to English Tech/Engineering Automotive / Cars & Trucks
maximales
Getriebeeingangsdrehmoment Schub**

** Schubmomentwerte gelten für das Turbinenrad
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Deceleration torque
5 +1 overrun torque
4 +1 acceleration torque
4 engine braking torque
Change log

May 11, 2018 05:08: Richard Stephen Created KOG entry

Discussion

Johannes Gleim May 11, 2018:
@ Ilka Es wäre schön zu wissen, welcher Vorschlag schlußendlich verwendet wurde. Noch schöner, wenn er auch in das Glossar eingetragen wird.
Richard Stephen Apr 28, 2018:
On the contrary This simply confirms what I have been saying all along. The fuel is shut off to prevent consumption while using the engine brake function to DECELERATE.
Alexander Schleber (X) Apr 28, 2018:
Stephen The only entry in Ernst, Dictionary of Industrial Technology, where "Schub" is associated with "deceleration is the term "Schubabschaltung" !!! This term is then translated as "deceleration fuel cutoff". I.e., the thrust or acceleration is being shut down by cutting off the fuel. Does this convince you that "deceleration" is not right in the context of "Schubdrehmoment"???
Richard Stephen Apr 28, 2018:
Point of perspective It sort of depends whether you are looking at the transmission/torque converter as a separate and unique unit or you are considering the vehicle as a whole. The forces acting on the vehicle are acceleration and deceleration from the engine and transferred through the transmission. Most of us are familiar with the term "Schubbetrieb" where the braking force of the engine is being used to decelerate the vehicle. "Zug" would be the opposite, where the engine is accelerating the vehicle, again with the power flowing through the transmission. I think this perspective provides the clearest and most easily comprehensible explanation of the phenomena described here. When we start talking about "pulling" and "pushing" forces or "thrust" and "traction" forces inside the transmission, things start getting pretty unintelligible.
Marcus Malabad Apr 28, 2018:
Turbinenrad Turbinenrad only occurs in a torque converter, in which case it's called a turbine or output rotor; or in a fluid clutch, in which case it's a turbine wheel or turbine rotor. This has nothing to do with deceleration or braking.

Getriebeeingangsdrehmoment = transmission input torque (US) or gearbox input torque (UK)

Ilka, your specific context is torque converters, right? If there's a mathematical formula for Schubmoment in your text, then the right term can be easily found. I suspect this is just "thrust torque" but more context is needed. Best context is the mathematical formula
Richard Stephen Apr 27, 2018:
@ TechLawDC I don't believe anyone disagreed with your answer, did they? As a matter of fact I think you are on precisely the right track. You just expressed it in different terms, than I did, which is fine.
TechLawDC Apr 27, 2018:
(Concerning Kudoz etiquette.) Regarding my answer, for example, I do not expect to receive a "disagree" rating from another Answerer unless the Answerer is truly a highly qualified authority in the subject, and so declares. Otherwise, "neutral" ought to suffice. (I am not and do not claim to be such an authority. I have read extensively in the general topic, however, in English.)
Richard Stephen Apr 27, 2018:
Two questions We're dealing with two questions here. The one is "Zug" and the other "Schub"; "Zug" when the engine is "pulling" and "Schub" when the weight of the car is "pushing" ahead, against the compression of the engine. The latter is commonly known as "Schubbetrieb" in German. in this state the car is being braked or decelerated by the engine.
Alexander Schleber (X) Apr 27, 2018:
Schub ?! "Schub" is always translated as push / thrust / impetus --> all these terms refer to an accelerating force -- so "deceleration" is definitely and completely wrong in my opinion.
Richard Stephen Apr 27, 2018:
As I already stated I prefer "acceleration" and "deceleration"; "push" and "pull" just sound so unprofessional to me - like trying to explain it to a business administration major, who doesn't know which end of the hammer to hold on to.
Ilka Nahmmacher (asker) Apr 27, 2018:
Yes, I think Schub is when the engine is being used as a brake (coasting) and I also have "Zug", in which case it is accelerating. I wonder if "push" and "pull" can be used. I actually thought these were pretty standard engine development terms, and that it was just me who didn't know them. But I guess not since you guys don't know for sure, either.
Richard Stephen Apr 27, 2018:
"Push" seems to me rather simplistic, although it does describe, in simple terms, what is happening. To my ear "deceleration" sounds better. Perhaps "reverse" torque, but again the only references all pertain to an entirely different field.
philgoddard Apr 27, 2018:
The third Google hit, Collins dictionary, gives "push torque". Do you agree with this, Ilka?
Richard Stephen Apr 27, 2018:
I think "deceleration" is what they are talking about here. Where the engine is actually being used as a brake, and, of course, the power flows through the transmission in the reverse direction. Deceleration torque? Can't find it anywhere either.

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs
Selected

Deceleration torque

See previous discussion
Peer comment(s):
disagree Alexander Schleber (X) : "Schub" is always translated as push / thrust / impetus --> all these terms refer to an accelerating force -- so "deceleration" is definitely and completely wrong in my opinion.
1 hr
agree Lancashireman : Time stamps indicate that the disagreeing started with the one posted here. I don't know which is the correct interpretation but I would like to see the red mark gone. Site etiquette.
21 hrs
Yes, you're right, it's petty
neutral Johannes Gleim : deceleration or (more specific) overrun torque
2 days 15 hrs
agree Kim Metzger
2 days 18 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
2 hrs

acceleration torque

Schubmoment is in my opinion the same as Beschleunigungsmoment and that translates as suggested above.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Richard Stephen : See discussion
3 hrs
agree Marcus Malabad : Agree with Alexander, /Schub/ in an auto eng context is always /thrust/ (Zug = traction)
21 hrs
Thanks Marcus
agree gangels (X) : It clearly states that Schub refers to the Turbinenrad (flywheel), i.e. the the starting process
1 day 5 hrs
Thanks
disagree Johannes Gleim : With Richard, in automotive context, Schub leads to deceleration of the vehicle.
2 days 16 hrs
Something went wrong...
5 hrs

engine braking torque

Alternative: push torque.
Alternative2: applied torque [on the friction disc of the clutch].
Alternative3 (which I actually prefer, but I also do not like to edit the author): torque [(on the clutch or on the transmission)]. (I.e. the word "torque" does not need a modifier. The context will suffice.)
Alternative 4: transmitted torque.
Explanation: The drive shaft presses against the receiving part of the clutch or the automatic transmission. Sometimes the applied torque there is referred to as a "push torque". However, this term is not commonly or frequently used.
Below is a reference where "push" is used to indicate an engine braking situation:
---
Encyclopedia of Automotive Engineering: Engines - fundamentals
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0470974028
... "driving damping is provided in both pull and push torque (propulsion and engine braking)"


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2018-04-27 20:33:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In the cited reference, the subject is the friction disc of a certain clutch.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 days 18 hrs

overrun torque

Schubmoment

Schubbetrieb, Kfz (beim Gaswegnehmen) -> Schiebebetrieb
Schiebebetrieb , m (1) Kfz(beim Gaswegnehmen)
• decelaration,
• overrun
(Fahrzustand nach dem Lastwechsel vom Gasgeben zum Gaswegnehmen, wen der Motor vom rollenden Fahrzeug angetrieben wird und dabei das Fahrzeug abbremst)
Schiebebetrieb , m (2) Kfz(auf Gefällestrecken)
• overrun,
• coastdown
(Fahrzustand, in dem der Motor vom rollenden Fahrzeug angetrieben wird; ist dieser Zustand länger andauernd [stationär] wird der im Engl. eher ~ benutzt, wird das Fz. Dabei abgebremst [transienter Zustand], wird im Engl. eher "deceleration" benutz; ~ führt unter Umständen zum Auspuffknallen; da 2-Takt-Motoren im ~ ruckeln würden, haben diese Fahrzeuge meist einen Freilauf)
(Schmitt, Fachwörterbuch der Kfz-Technik)

"overrun torque" About 3.150 results (0,50 seconds)

In this example the variable throttle runs from –0.3 to 1.0 to simulate overrun torque.
https://books.google.de/books?id=Ek0Cxo4rfnMC&pg=PA499&lpg=P...

it is desirable to provide a substantially consistent degree of deceleration on overrun—overrun is defined in this specification as slowing of the vehicle without assistance of braking, typically at a substantially zero position of the accelerator pedal.
:
The modified characteristic 19 represents a target deceleration which is converted in a processor 20 to a target overrun torque 21 which in turn is applied firstly to the electric motor/generator 103 of the vehicle.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2016/0167638.html

Die drehmomentbegrenzende Einrichtung ist derart konzipiert, dass das im Schubbetrieb vom Getriebe auf den Motor übertragbare maximale Schubmoment kleiner als das im Normalbetrieb vom Motor auf das Getriebe übertragbare maximale Antriebsmoment ist.
The torque limiting device is designed such that the maximum overrun torque that can be transmitted from the transmission to the engine in the overrun mode is lower than the maximum drive torque that can be transmitted from the engine to the transmission during normal operation. http://context.reverso.net/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/SCHU...

The torque limiting device is designed such that the maximum overrun torque that can be transmitted from the transmission to the engine in the overrun mode is lower than the maximum drive torque that can be transmitted from the engine to the transmission during normal operation.
http://context.reverso.net/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/Schu...

One of the benefits of the electrical integrated actuator clutch is the accurate control of overrun torque with minimum response time as afforded by the eddy current brake.
https://books.google.de/books?id=a9KEBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA123&lpg=P...


On more pronounced downhill gradients, gliding is suppressed because here, the vehicle does not slow down, despite the engine overrun torque and no fuel is consumed in this driving situation due to utilisation of the overrun shut-off.
http://www.porscheownersmanuals.com/2012-911-carrera-manual/...
Peer comment(s):
agree Richard Yates : I have only ever seen "Schub" in the sense that you state (overrun), i.e. where the moving vehicle is usually driving the engine, against the resistance of the latter (entails engine braking unless the engine is disconnected to allow coasting).
381 days
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
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