Jan 8, 2013 14:20
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
tertres
French to English
Other
Tourism & Travel
les tertres de Chartres--steps leading to upper city
I was wondering whether there was an English term for this or should I leave the French word with an explanation in brackets?
Proposed translations
(English)
References
"Hill of St. François" | John Holland |
Change log
Jan 8, 2013 14:35: Karen Henry changed "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "les tertres de Chartres--steps leading to upper city"
Proposed translations
11 hrs
Selected
tertres (medieval inclined path with or without steps)
Tertre doit absolument être gardé tel quel.
Il s'agit d'un terme local (chartrain) pour désigner ces endroits :
"Chartres s'est développée sur un site défensif juste au dessus de la vallée de l'Eure, là où elle se trouve la plus encaissée. Ainsi se sont créées une ville haute et une ville basse reliées par des tertres (en langage chartrain, une montée permettant d'accéder rapidement de la basse ville à la haute ville)."
http://www.chartres.fr/decouvrir/histoire-et-patrimoine/patr...
La où je ne suis pas d'accord avec Gilla Evans c'est que les tertres ne sont pas forcement des escaliers :
"Des tertres, nom donné à ces dénivellations pourvues ou non d'escalier et datant du Moyen-Age, permettent de relier la ville haute à la ville basse et les berges de l'Eure."
http://www.voyages.net/fr/membre/Nico/carnet/une-journee-cha...
Le Tertre de la Poissonnerie par exemple n'a pas d'escaliers mais une pente
http://www.chartres.fr/decouvrir/histoire-et-patrimoine/patr...
Je ferai une note de bas de page expliquant de quoi il s'agit : a medieval inclined path, with or without steps.
Il s'agit d'un terme local (chartrain) pour désigner ces endroits :
"Chartres s'est développée sur un site défensif juste au dessus de la vallée de l'Eure, là où elle se trouve la plus encaissée. Ainsi se sont créées une ville haute et une ville basse reliées par des tertres (en langage chartrain, une montée permettant d'accéder rapidement de la basse ville à la haute ville)."
http://www.chartres.fr/decouvrir/histoire-et-patrimoine/patr...
La où je ne suis pas d'accord avec Gilla Evans c'est que les tertres ne sont pas forcement des escaliers :
"Des tertres, nom donné à ces dénivellations pourvues ou non d'escalier et datant du Moyen-Age, permettent de relier la ville haute à la ville basse et les berges de l'Eure."
http://www.voyages.net/fr/membre/Nico/carnet/une-journee-cha...
Le Tertre de la Poissonnerie par exemple n'a pas d'escaliers mais une pente
http://www.chartres.fr/decouvrir/histoire-et-patrimoine/patr...
Je ferai une note de bas de page expliquant de quoi il s'agit : a medieval inclined path, with or without steps.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Merci pour cette précision!"
5 mins
hillock or mound
It depends on the context but this is the direct translation
+1
19 mins
vennels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vennel
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Note added at 20 minutes (2013-01-08 14:40:23 GMT)
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http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venelle_(voie)
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Note added at 20 minutes (2013-01-08 14:40:23 GMT)
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http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venelle_(voie)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Miranda Joubioux (X)
: Good idea, although not the literal translation of tertres
12 mins
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Thanks
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neutral |
cc in nyc
: not sure this would work as a gloss (which I think should be used here)
24 mins
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neutral |
Sheila Wilson
: I imagine the majority of non-francophone tourists won't have a clue what that means
1 hr
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Indeed - unless they are Scottish!
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+8
40 mins
medieval steps (tertres)
I would be inclined to give an explanation and add the name tertre if it is a tourist text, to avoid confusion.
It would be useful to have the sentence in which it they are mentioned though, for us to give you a useful suggestion.
It would be useful to have the sentence in which it they are mentioned though, for us to give you a useful suggestion.
Note from asker:
Hello Gina, thanks for you input, I've selected Elsa answer since she is right in adding that there are not always steps (which I didn't know either!) |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Philippa Smith
: nice solution Gilla!
6 mins
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thanks, Philippa!
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agree |
kashew
: I was about to suggest stairway/case
8 mins
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thanks, John! I think stairways would work too. Staircases to me suggests indoor stairs.
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agree |
Miranda Joubioux (X)
: Yes, but I'd still opt for keeping the French and putting the translation in brackets.
46 mins
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Thanks, Miranda. That would be a valid option. Either way I think the word needs to be kept.
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agree |
John Holland
54 mins
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thanks, John
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agree |
Carol Gullidge
: with Miranda, putting tertres in italics or within quotes, and then glossing, e.g.: "tertres" -- as the medieval steps are known -- ...
1 hr
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thanks, Carol
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agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: with Miranda
1 hr
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thanks gallagy
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agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
3 hrs
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thanks, Gilou
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agree |
cc in nyc
6 hrs
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thanks cc
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+1
5 mins
buttes, hills
more context please!
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=45898
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Note added at 45 mins (2013-01-08 15:05:58 GMT)
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with more context I agree with Miranda (leave "TERTRES" with explanation in brackets) .
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Note added at 55 mins (2013-01-08 15:15:25 GMT)
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and with even more context maybe they are MIDDENS (basically archaeological refuse heaps) as suggested by CC's reference.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/midden
since you already have the ruelles or alleys in your sentence
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=45898
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Note added at 45 mins (2013-01-08 15:05:58 GMT)
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with more context I agree with Miranda (leave "TERTRES" with explanation in brackets) .
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Note added at 55 mins (2013-01-08 15:15:25 GMT)
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and with even more context maybe they are MIDDENS (basically archaeological refuse heaps) as suggested by CC's reference.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/midden
since you already have the ruelles or alleys in your sentence
1 hr
rises
although it might be a little too academic for tourists :)
TERTRE
A. − Petite éminence de terre, souvent à sommet plat, et isolée. Synon. butte, monticule.
TLF
TERTRE Obs.
Also terter.
[a. F. tertre a hillock (Roland 11th c.).]
A little hill; a rising ground; an eminence.
1481 ― Godeffroy cxxii. 185 The barons acorded that they wold close this litil terter and waye.
OED
RISE
II. 9.II.9 a.II.9.a A piece of rising ground; a hill.
11. a.II.11.a The vertical height of a step, an arch, an inclined surface or object, etc., measured from the base or springing-line to the highest point.
OED
TERTRE
A. − Petite éminence de terre, souvent à sommet plat, et isolée. Synon. butte, monticule.
TLF
TERTRE Obs.
Also terter.
[a. F. tertre a hillock (Roland 11th c.).]
A little hill; a rising ground; an eminence.
1481 ― Godeffroy cxxii. 185 The barons acorded that they wold close this litil terter and waye.
OED
RISE
II. 9.II.9 a.II.9.a A piece of rising ground; a hill.
11. a.II.11.a The vertical height of a step, an arch, an inclined surface or object, etc., measured from the base or springing-line to the highest point.
OED
-1
1 day 4 hrs
mounds
Imho
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Kim Metzger
: http://riel.weebly.com/1/post/2012/12/a-tale-of-two-cathedra... See second paragraph.
7 mins
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Reference comments
40 mins
Reference:
"Hill of St. François"
That's what the Wikipedia calls the picture entitled "Tertre Saint-François" when it appears on the English version of the page.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres#.C3.89difices_civils
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres#Gallery
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres#.C3.89difices_civils
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres#Gallery
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral |
Miranda Joubioux (X)
: Wikipedia, much as I really love it is not conclusive, since it's probably a translation and not all their translations are good. It needs backup references.
49 mins
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Oh, I agree! That's one reason why I didn't post an answer or as a comment to an answer, and it's why I put quotation marks around the title. If nothing else, the links do show one picture of the tertres.
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Discussion
http://www.gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ficheOqlf.aspx?Id_Fiche=17494...
http://www.gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ficheOqlf.aspx?Id_Fiche=84588...
http://www.monnuage.fr/point-d-interet/tertres-a100442
shows photos of the different Chartres tertres and a concise explanation of what they are:
"Il existe plusieurs tertres à Chartres. celui de Saint-Eman, Saint-André, Saint François, St Nicolas, de la Poissonnerie, ou encore le Tertre du "pied plat" !
Leur nom vient du Moyen Age, ils permettaient aux habitants d'atteindre la Haute ville depuis la Basse Ville.
Leur taille varie, de quelques marches pour le plus petit "du pied plat" à 150 env. pour le tertre St Nicolas.
Ces tertres sont ainsi une marque du passé. "
It being an historical term, I'd say keep the French and add a few words in brackets to explain (not sure about "vennels" as they can be flat alleyways etc. whereas these "tertres" are all going upwards).
I take the point about vennels being between walls.