Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
cuillerée
English translation:
approx. 10 ml
French term
cuillerée
(I have listed it as 'Pro' because I am looking for an opinion from people who know about cookery).
3 +1 | approx. 10 ml |
Sheila Wilson
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4 +3 | tablespoonful, teaspoonful, dessertspoonful |
André Vanasse (X)
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4 +2 | table spoon |
Tony M
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5 | spoonfull |
Constantinos Faridis (X)
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4 | Teaspoon / Dessert spoon / Soup spoon / Table spoon |
Lara Barnett
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4 -1 | spoonful |
Etienne Muylle Wallace
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May 1, 2011 23:15: Nikki Scott-Despaigne changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
May 7, 2011 08:56: Sheila Wilson Created KOG entry
PRO (1): Jean-Louis S.
Non-PRO (3): cc in nyc, silvester55, Nikki Scott-Despaigne
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Proposed translations
approx. 10 ml
If you're reasonably sure it's the soup size, then that's only 10 ml whereas the tablespoon is 15 ml. It may not matter, but 50% more could make a real difference.
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Note added at 5 days (2011-05-07 08:55:48 GMT) Post-grading
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Post-grading note: I believe this is the best answer if the context makes it clear that the French term refers to the size of spoon used for dessert/soup. In other contexts, there may be no alternative to referring back to the client or adding a translator's note.
I agree (which is why I asked this question), particularly when you have '- 6 cuillerées de tomate fraîche écrasée', or '4 cuillerees de creme liquide'. In one or two places (in the 50 recipes), they do also mention 'cuilleree a soupe' or 'grosse cuilleree', but in almost every other case this is not specified. If 10ml is a dessert spoon, then I think that is probably what it should be. |
agree |
Tony M
: I suspect that such precision is spurious if the FR is no more precise than that, but generally, I would agree with this measurement
4 hrs
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Thanks, Tony. The problem is that the French usage does seem to be quite accurate, in the same way as an American cup is exact but as a Brit I'm lost as a cup for me comes in various sizes
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tablespoonful, teaspoonful, dessertspoonful
Use to tablespoons of butter.
agree |
Jean-Louis S.
: Tablespoon, like your grandmother...
1 hr
|
agree |
emiledgar
: Yes, if the recipe is specific they usually use càs (cuiller à soupe - tablespoon) or càc (cuiller à café - teaspoon) My favorite old style French measurement is "une grosse noix de beurre"
2 hrs
|
neutral |
B D Finch
: Just a note to emiledgar: a cuiller à café is considerably smaller than a teaspoon
22 hrs
|
agree |
Gaelle THIBAULT
: I agree that it could be either or...without more context in the recipe.
1 day 2 hrs
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Teaspoon / Dessert spoon / Soup spoon / Table spoon
http://homecooking.about.com/library/weekly/bloldconvert.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_weights_and_measures
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_one_tablespoon_equals_three_tea...
"6 TABLESPOONS organic extra virgin olive oil; 1 organic egg; 1 TEASPOON organic ground mustard; 1 TABLESPOON organic cider vinegar; 7 drops of liquid sweet leaf stevia; 1/4 TEASPOON B-salt or salt to taste ; black pepper (to taste)."
"7 TABLE SPOONS (4 fl oz) olive oil; 2 DESERT SPOON fresh oregano or 1 DESERT SPOON dried oregano; 1 DESERT SPOON (10 ml) white wine vinegar;..."
No, that is my problem, I often can't work out how much is actually needed, (and am, of course, very well aware that 'spoonful' can refer to tablespoon, dessert spoon, teaspoon, or coffee spoon, in English. Perhaps I need to ask the client what they mean, as there are about 50 short recipes. |
spoonfull
The use of dessert spoons around the world varies greatly; in some areas, they are very common while in other places the use of the dessert spoon is almost unheard of—with diners using forks or teaspoons for their desserts instead.[1]
In some traditional table settings, the dessert spoon appears above the plate, separated from the rest of the cutlery, or it may be brought in with the dessert.[2]
As a unit of measure, a level dessertspoon equals two teaspoons or 10 milliliters (about 3 fluidrams).[3] Though for dry ingredients, a rounded or heaped spoonful is often specified.
Sources
^ Martin, Judith (March 13, 2005). "On the Offensive". The Washington Post.
^ "The Secret of the Formal Place Setting". Diner's Digest. CyberPalate LLC. 1997.
^ Rowlett, Russ (October 30, 2004). "D". How Many? A Dictionary of Units of Measurement. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
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Note added at 55 λεπτά (2011-05-01 12:39:38 GMT)
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yes. "spoonful" is VERY HEPFUL if Wwe are talking about cookery measurements...
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Note added at 1 ώρα (2011-05-01 13:14:34 GMT)
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in this case the French texte will be mentioned right next to the word cuillerée the size of the spoon or the use of the spoon. for example: La cuillère à café ou petite cuillère, cuillere à soupe etc.
My point was that 'spoonful' is not very helpful if you are talking about cookery measurements. Also, as far as I know, dessert spoons are used in France as they are in the UK. If not, it would still be important to specify the quantity that is meant. |
If you think 'spoonful' is very helpful, which kind of spoon would you take it to be referring to? Unless that is understood, it could be either a coffee spoon or a tablespoon, which are completely different sizes. |
The whole problem is that the size of the spoon is not specified. |
neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: You own webref spells it correctly, with one 'l': spoonful
22 mins
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spoonful
Even then one can aways discuss whether the product has to be equal flat to the spoon or with a little hill of product. In fact, here is the difference between a good cook and another: interpretation of sizes and volumes.
neutral |
Sheila Wilson
: That may be in other languages/cultures but in England a spoonful is more likely to mean a tablespoonful i.e. 50% more
4 hrs
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disagree |
B D Finch
: Agree with Sheila's comment above. Also, if there is no other qualifying adjective, then it is flat, otherwise it is "rounded" for the same quantity above the edge as below and "heaped" for as much as you can pile on.
20 hrs
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table spoon
You can, of course, also check the plausibility of this solution, simply from the logic of the recipe: ingredients like oil, flour, etc. are commonly used in tablespoon-sized quantities, whereas if it said 'piment de cayenne,' for example, then one would be more likely to expect a cuillère à café (tsp.) So that ought to give you a double check, if one is needed.
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Note added at 4 heures (2011-05-01 15:46:28 GMT)
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As I've said, the commonest (default) cuillerée in FR really equates to the dessert spoon, which is, however, much less common measure in EN, hence why I would recklessly suggest tablespoonful (tbsp.) as being near enough for all practical purposes, especially if the recipe isn't more precise in the first place.
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Note added at 18 heures (2011-05-02 06:33:15 GMT)
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Yes, MP, if you feel that people these days are likely to have dessertspoons, then by all means why not; my only concern was that the dessertspoon is much less commonly used as a homely measure in the UK (don't know about the US?) than the grande cuillère / cuillère à soupe in FR.
Do note that, whatever solution you adopt, I would avoid using soup-spoon in EN, since AKAIK that definitely is not usually used as a measure in an EN kitchen, and might indeed cause people some confusion.
Another solution might be to say 'a scant tbsp' — I think most people would understand that as 'a bit less than...', and in the case of a tbsp, that would amount to the same thing, really.
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Note added at 18 heures (2011-05-02 06:37:05 GMT)
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Now that you have given those vital extra context examples in your comment to Sheila's answer, it is clear that these must be 'grande cuillère' — there's no way you'd measure out cream using a teaspoon, for example.
Also, note that a 'grosse cuillerée' actually means something rather different since it doesn't refer to the size of the spoon itself, but to the extent to whcih it is filled: 'a good / generous / heaped spoonful'; I'm willing to be you haven't got any of these 'grosse cuillerées' for anything liquid!
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Note added at 18 heures (2011-05-02 06:39:18 GMT)
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Apologies for the typos:
"which"
and
"I'm willing to bet"
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Note added at 20 heures (2011-05-02 08:34:53 GMT)
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I think there's pretty much unanimity amongst those of us living in France and immersed in this culinary culture, which I'm sure will only be corroborated by our FR native colleagues.
I've just asked my Belgian partner, who is however a professional rather than domestic chef, and he confirms that he too would understand the default 'cuillerée' to be a 'cuillère à soupe'
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Note added at 21 heures (2011-05-02 08:45:52 GMT)
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Gilla has raised an important point, as to how we would normally express this in an EN recipe: one would indeed be much more likely to see '3 tbsp', for example, and only write 'spoonful' within the instructions, to say, for example: "Using just one spoonful of the olive oil, ..."
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Note added at 22 heures (2011-05-02 09:58:17 GMT)
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In the light of the extra context (examples) rpovided by Asker, I am now more confident than ever that this is indeed referring to 'grande cuillère', which as Sheila says equates more to the measurement of a dessert spoon.
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Note added at 22 heures (2011-05-02 10:06:35 GMT)
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I think the other answerer was unaware of the fresh examples you'd given, which pretty much clinch things.
Although I agree that EN recipes do often give literal measurements (not least, because they often give imperial + metric!), there is an argument for keeping the 'homely' measures as being more practical for the cook.
So I vote for 'dessertspoon' if you want to be strictly accurate, or 10 ml as suggested by Sheila if you want to go down that route — but this might involve you in converting other measures too, and also, what about the use of metric / imperial?
To be honest, the +50% difference is unlikely to make all that much difference in most recipes, since if this homely measure is used in the first place, it clearly means we are not talking about high-precision laboratory recipes. i can think of few dishes where the difference would be truly significant, unless the error accumulates seriously because there are 20 spoons of something, for example. But as you and I both know, who cook without recipes, it's much more about 'bit of this and a dash of that'...
You could, of course, always convert your measures to ml, and then convert them back to 'proper' tbsp'; so your 6 c. of tomatoes becomes 4 tbsp, etc. But frankly, I don't think it's very necessary, except perhaps for certain recipes that you could decide for yourself.
As everyone is likely to have dessert spoons, why couldn't it be translated as 'dessertspoonful', then, if that would be more accurate? (One of my problems is that I nearly always cook without using recipes, so I don't know the common terms, but it seems unlikely that many people would be phased by the term 'dessertspoonful', if that is likely to be what is meant. |
Thanks very much for all your helpful comments, Tony, and you are right that there are no heaped spoonfuls of milk or olive oil! I thought we were really getting somewhere with your partner's expert knowledge, until someone (-possibly someone who hadn't thought about it very much) answered on the FR/FR question that they would take it to mean a 'cuilleree a cafe'! The problem is that, although I know we often use tbsp in English, if 'cuilleree a soupe' is 10ml, and tbsp is 15 ml, multiples of this will make quite a difference if we are talking about milk, or even fresh tomatoes. I think, in English, we'd be more likely to put the weight or ml, in fact, and forget the spoons. |
Yes, I'm sorry I didn't give more context earlier on - I thought it might be a term that was generally understood to mean a particular quantity. Dessert spoonful it is. |
agree |
Sarah Bessioud
: agree with your logic - a spoon used for cooking, invariably a tablespoon in French kitchens
5 hrs
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Thanks, JdM!
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agree |
Evans (X)
: I agree, and in English recipes, while in the method you might say "a spoonful" more often than not you would say "a tablespoon of" and in the ingredients list it would be "a tablespoon" or more commonly "a tbsp".
16 hrs
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Thanks, Gilla! Agree on all points.
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neutral |
B D Finch
: I think that you are, indeed, a bit "reckless" to suggest "tablespoon". Quite honestly, with vague recipes I'd just slosh it in from the bottle (if liquid), but for baking cakes, the difference between a tablespoon & a desertspoon is generally crucial.
18 hrs
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Thanks, Barbara! Yes, I was indeed very careful to speciify depending on thee type of recipe; however, the added context seems to confirm, and I think we're all agreed that dessert spoon is the best and most accurate solution. How many sloshes to a tbsp?
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Discussion
It is very common to use 'cuillerée' throughout in FR recipes.
Incidentally, it is "spoonfuls", not "spoonsful" because it is about the quantity, not about whether one or more spoon is used to measure it. Confirmed by New Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors
« '6 cuillerées de tomate fraiche écrasé'; '4 cuillerees de creme liquide': 'une cuilleree d'huile d'olive'; '4 cuillerées de lait'; 'deux cuillerées de confiture'. »
http://www.cookuk.co.uk/poultry/LemonChickenKebabs.htm
http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recipe-detail.asp?recipe=1043...
Actually I don't think you have to say "ful" at the end. I think spoon sounds a lot neater and the term does exist - Google has a lot, as do my recipe books.
"1x10ml SPOON (1 dessert spoon) oil"
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/week4recipes.pdf
MPortal : You can only translate what you have which is spoonful.
Guessswork and suppositions are out. Ask your client!
However, my collins-robert says:
"cuillerée = (nf) spoonful (culin) ~ a soupe = tablespoon; ~ a cafe = teaspoonful."
The 'default' spoon size in FR is the 'cuillère à soupe', which as a measure equates to the 'dessertspoon' in the UK.
Unless there is anything in your 50 recipes which would contradict that, I personally wouldn't attempt to « chercher midi à 14 h »