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péjoratif

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

huis-clos

English translation:

Closed set

Added to glossary by Lara Barnett
Jan 19, 2015 09:18
10 yrs ago
12 viewers *
French term

huis-clos

French to English Art/Literary Cinema, Film, TV, Drama filmmaking
I am translating the director's treatment for a dossier for a documentary film

Talking of the location where it is to be filmed they say

Un lieu unique, un huis-clos

At first I thought this meant One location, behind closed doors - but now I see there is a cinema term "in camera"

Would appreciate any input from any film production specialists, with thanks
Proposed translations (English)
4 Closed set
2 +4 huis-clos
3 +1 a single set
Change log

Jan 27, 2015 09:05: Lara Barnett Created KOG entry

Discussion

Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Francis I do see your point grammatically, however I do also object to "no matter what story you weave around or imagine about this documentary project". I was merely trying to make sense of what the Asker was adding regarding the filming of this scene. I did not weave a story around it and nor did I make any assumptions about the "location" itself, which was all I was saying in my first post today.
Francis Marche Feb 12, 2015:
@LaraBarnett I understand your point Lara but you build it around a rationale which deliberately ignores the fact that "huis clos" in French performing arts and cinema has a highly specific meaning, no matter what story you weave around or imagine about this documentary project. There will be a documentary shot in one single location, presumably with all interviews conducted in there. Asker informs us « Le film est un huis-clos tourné exclusivement dans le cimetière. ». Now if your interpretation were remotely acceptable this sentence would read like this : « Le film est tourné en huis-clos dans le cimetière.” You can spot the difference ? “Le film est un huis-clos” means the interviewers/performers interact in one single location whilst “Le film est tourné en huis-clos” could mean what you assume : that the film is shot with “only essential crew members and artists allowed to be present during filming”. I hope that grammatical point settles the matter.
Jennifer Levey Feb 12, 2015:
Over-simplification, given the geo-political conte Francis Marche: The only case where your (wild) interpretation of "huis-clos" in film making itself would make sense would be what you give as examples in your notes : sex scenes.

The mere fact the documentary was made in a Chilean cemetery almost automatically implies that political risks are being taken; by the film-makers and/or by those asked to give authorisation for filming in ‘sensitive’ places which are likely to have ‘questionable’ links to the former military regime. As a resident of Chile, I have seen a number of documentaries, both foreign and local productions, which explore events post 1973: the ‘disappeared’, exhumations of web-known personalities, the numerous human rights trials under way, even now, in Chile’s courts, etc. Public reaction here on such things is rarely ‘neutral’ – and the rights and wrongs of the military regime still cause far more public debate than mere ‘sex’.

As I pointed out on 19th January, this documentary was most probably a huis clos in both senses of the term: the action takes place within a single venue and with the venue closed to public access while filming.
Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Germaine I am pleased you have a such a fixed opinion on this. All I was saying in the beginning was that you have misunderstood my original answer.
Germaine Feb 12, 2015:
I totally agree with Francis Marche.
Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Francis For whatever reason or type of film is not something I am arguing about - I was just showing you the Askers description about the "private" nature of the filming of this scene, e.g.: "The film DOES take place in one setting only and this term IS part of the production details. And since it involves a very 'delicate' subject I do think that "closed set" is appropriate."
Francis Marche Feb 12, 2015:
@LaraBarnett I understand that a film might be "politically delicate", but assuming it's not a porn, its purpose and raison-d'être is not to remain "private" for that particular reason but rather, by virtue of its very nature (politically sensitive), to be viewed by and disseminated to the largest number of spectators isn't it ? The only case where your (wild) interpretation of "huis-clos" in film making itself would make sense would be what you give as examples in your notes : sex scenes. The meaning of the French legal term "huis-clos" had led you astray in assuming that the "huis-clos" condition of a court hearing could be transposed to a film set and applied to "crew and talents". That's just delusionary I'm afraid. It's not what it is. A "huis-clos" in a play or film is the REPRESENTATION, the acted situation of personas interacting in one single set (often an enclosed location). No matter how you twist and stretch the facts, and tourne autour du pot, that's what it is and was never anything else but just that.
Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Francis Marche Well there is obviously something in the context that our polite "discussion" is not aware of, or the Asker would not have chosen my answer. It might help to read her own contributions to the discussion box to realise that this may just be the case, e.g." since the subject is "politically delicate" it will definitely be private most of the time -"
Francis Marche Feb 12, 2015:
The French term "huis-clos" applies to what is being stage IN FRONT OF the camera, not AROUND the cameras and crews. In other words the Eng term "closed set" with the meaning described by LaraBarnett is clearly a mistranslation.
Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Tony All I was saying was that I was not disputing whether it was a location or not, so "It's not a location" was not relevant to my answer. I did not mean to spark up a debate on anybody else's opinion.
Tony M Feb 12, 2015:
@ Germaine Well said! It's that vital difference between 'à...' and the noun 'un...'!
Germaine Feb 12, 2015:
LaraBarnett, And I think you're missing mine. Did you read my comment at 00:17? C'est toute la différence qu'il y a, en français, entre "à huis clos" - loc. adv., toutes portes fermées, en privé - et "un huis clos" - subst. masc., Synon. de intimité. Le bonheur préfère le recueillement du huis clos. Cf. http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/huis.

By "it's not a location", I mean "a closed set" is not a location by definition. This is relevant since the question IS about the description of a location. Mais ça n'a plus beaucoup d'importance maintenant et je ne tiens pas à en faire un débat non plus. Je souhaitais simplement apporter "a native point of view" sur le sens de l'expression "un lieu unique, un huis clos". And by the way, "un lieu unique" pourrait aussi s'interpréter et l'on aurait "a remarkable/unique place, a retreat"...
Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Tony That may be the case, but I do not see "It's not a "location"; it a requirement/proceedings for some scenes." as relevant to the answer I gave, this is where I was suggesting Germaine had misunderstood my answer.
Tony M Feb 12, 2015:
@ Lara I think Germaine is completely right here: the 'huis-clos 'added on is simply amplifying, reinforcing, the more physical notion of the 'lieu unique' with the more psychological notion of the 'huis-clos' — the fact that they are only separated by a comma to me only serves to confirm this idea. I feel sure if any other meaning were intended, a more expanded form of conjunction would have been required.
Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Germaine I think you have missed my point after all. Obviously the filming takes place in a fixed location, which may by all means be "un lieu unique". But as we can see, it also happens to be a "huis clos"!
Germaine Feb 12, 2015:
LaraBarnett, Look at the question:
Talking of the location where it is to be filmed they say
Un lieu unique, un huis-clos
Lara Barnett Feb 12, 2015:
@ Germaine Personne n'a dit que c'est un "lieu" en tant que tel. Vous devez relire les réponses avec plus de soin.
Germaine Feb 12, 2015:
My 2 cents... Par "huis-clos", ici, on entend un lieu isolé, privé, tranquille, si vous voulez. Un lieu "en retrait" (ex.: un camp de chasse ou de pêche, un monastère, une ferme, etc.) par opposition à un lieu fréquenté. It's, indeed, a single set, kind of private or intimate. Un "closed set", n'est pas un "lieu" en tant que tel, mais un moment du tournage où l'accès au plateau est limité.
philgoddard Jan 19, 2015:
I'm with Damien, and I think it means a single location. So "Un lieu unique, un huis-clos"is essentially a tautology - except that "huis clos" to me has connotations of concentrated drama and emotion, perhaps even claustrophobia. But the majority of people would not understand the French phrase.
writeaway Jan 19, 2015:
closed set Film-set-jargon. Get clear. What's going on.
www.peak-performance-for-actors.com/Film-set-jargon.html
You are not allowed on a closed set unless you are key to that scene. “Crossing” said before ... Comes from old studio term from silent films. Wind Reel And Print.
writeaway Jan 19, 2015:
A closed set Means a set that doesn't allow any visitors or observers. Only those actually involved in the production
Jennifer Levey Jan 19, 2015:
@Olga (2) In your last comment you state "documentary film to be filmed uniquely in a cemetery". That, based on my understanding of how these things are handled here in Chile, would be both a closed set and a huis-clos.
Jennifer Levey Jan 19, 2015:
@Olga (1) It's still not entirely clear from the context whether this documentary film will be shot: a) in an actual cemetery, or b) on a movie set built somewhere else and made to resemble a cemetery.

In case a), considering the fact that Chilean cemeteries are public places, permission would be needed from the local authority (usually the public-works dept. of the 'municipalidad'), and such permission is likely to be subject to the condition of the film set being 'closed' to public view. If, as you suggest, the subject is 'politically delicate', it might be difficult to get that authorisation.

In case b), the set would probably be on private land and no authorization would be needed beyond that of the land-owner.

Case a) would be a 'closed set'.
Case b) would be a de facto 'closed set' because it's on private land.

In either case, the documentary may be a huis-clos - if all the action takes place in one venue defined, in this case, by the perimeter wall of the cemetery. If there are any scenes shot outside the cemetery - in a hospital, for example, the huis-clos is broken.

(tbc)
Olga Helm (asker) Jan 19, 2015:
Thanks kieran and Clive. I see what you both mean. Must confess to being quite undecided as to which term is the right one... it refers to a documentary film to be filmed uniquely in a cemetery and since the subject is "politically delicate" it will definitely be private most of the time - but not all... need to ask the film director perhaps-but thanks so much to all proz translators for all your input :-)
Clive Phillips Jan 19, 2015:
in camera To add to Kieran's explanation, 'in camera' is not a term specific to cinema. It is used widely in English to mean 'behind closed doors', especially in a court-room context. It is adopted from the Latin for 'in the room'.
Kieran Mc Kenna Jan 19, 2015:
Huis Clos means "In camera" in the legal sense of the public being excluded i.e. the case is held in secret i.e "In the room" from Latin
Damien Etourneau Jan 19, 2015:
Being French, I really think that "closed set" is really inappropriate.
A "huis-clos" movie is, be definition (French definition), a movie set in ONE location only. This is by definition "un lieu unique".
writeaway Jan 19, 2015:
It's the genre, that's clear now Le film est un huis-clos tourné exclusivement dans le cimetière.
Olga Helm (asker) Jan 19, 2015:
Here is some more context - as I say I feel closed set is fine...but open to being corrected... thanks everyone for helping out

Le film est un huis-clos tourné exclusivement dans le cimetière.

NOTE DE REALISATION
Un lieu unique, un huis-clos
Damien Etourneau Jan 19, 2015:
I think that this documentary will take place in this Cemetary in Chile and only there. So, for me, this documentary is a "huis-clos".
For "closed set", the French sentence would be "tourné en huis-clos".
But, well, if there is a mention within the document that indicates that there will be no public allowed during the shooting of this documentary, I'll be all wrong :)
Tony M Jan 19, 2015:
@ Asker In that case, it is vital that you give us that extra context; but the way it is worded, that doesn't seem very likely — particularly the way it says 'un huis-clos' rather than '(tourné) en huis-clos', for example.
Olga Helm (asker) Jan 19, 2015:
Thanks Tony and Carol for your input. The film DOES take place in one setting only and this term IS part of the production details. And since it involves a very 'delicate' subject I do think that "closed set" is appropriate.
Carol Gullidge Jan 19, 2015:
but this is a dossier for a documentary rather than a movie, so it seems to me that we can't ignore the possibility (without further context) that "huis clos" is merely being used figuratively - as in something like a secluded spot
Tony M Jan 19, 2015:
@ Asker It would be very unusual for logistical issues to be mentioned in an early document like a treatment (which is primarily concerned with more creative issues) — usually, it would only be mentioned much later on as part of the production details, unless for some reason it were very significant to the cerative aspects of the treatment — in which case, I'd expect it to be expanded on here.
Also, the way it is punctuated seems to suggest it is another description for the 'lieu unique', very much confirming that notion that the all action is confined to a single place.
Carol Gullidge Jan 19, 2015:
Context? Can you tell us anything about the 'lieu unique'? Where is it and what sort of a setting is it?
It doesn't necessarily sound to me like 'one location' and I suspect that 'huis clos' isn't being used here as a film-production term in this instance

Proposed translations

13 mins
Selected

Closed set

I presume they mean that only essential crew members and artists are allowed to be present during filming, which usually happens for sensitivity during certain types of filming eg. nudity etc.

"huis clos
(Droit) Audience à huis clos, sans que le public soit admis.
Demander le huis clos.
(Figuré) Confrontation entre des personnes qui sont isolées du monde extérieur.
Ce film nous montre un huis clos prenant et exaltant."
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/huis_clos

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2015-01-19 09:34:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

While filming all staff, crew and artists are usually free to watch the action being filmed. Certain situations require privacy from non-essential members:

"CLOSED SET: A television studio that is closed to all but specific crew and talent involved in the scene."
http://www.cybercollege.com/gloss/gloss_c.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 29 mins (2015-01-19 09:48:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Olga,
In my experience, when film companies acquire a licence to film in an outdoor location, they usually have all rights to the area of filming (or the area they may have hired) and do block passers-by etc from crossing the area. If there is a nude or sensitive film being filmed outdoors, they would usually close off the set while the action is being filmed. If people are trying to walk through the location they sometimes let the public pass through when action has ended.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2015-01-19 09:59:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Leiz: The preparation was more difficult than the actual filming since the only CLOSED SET was the cemetery scene; safety was our main priority especially for the road scenes. "
http://arcthemagazine.com/arc/2012/01/interview-with-the-cre...
Example sentence:

"“CLOSED SET” means there is nude filming going on. You are not allowed on a closed set unless you are key to that scene."

" why would sex scenes always be filmed on a “CLOSED SET,” with only essential personnel allowed during filming? "

Reference:

http://www.peak-performance-for-actors.com/Film-set-jargon.html

http://www.vulture.com/2012/03/shooting-a-sex-scene-polone.html

Note from asker:
Thanks Lara for your rapid response. That is a very good point but I'm not sure if it would be possible as closed set in this case would refer to a cemetery in Chile where the film would be filmed. Not sure if it is possible to "close" a cemetery. But this is definitely the right term for my translation much better than behind closed doors. Thanks so much
Yes of course on reflection you are totally right about that. Cheers! :-)
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : a closed hearing is one translation but I doubt that can be converted to closed set. Can you provide refs that show it's the right translation (and not just refs that show that the English exists)? naturally the term closed set exists but .../oh well
35 mins
I did not suggest "closed hearing". Why is that term relevant?
disagree Tony M : STRONGLY! The term 'closed set' certainly does exist with the meaning you cite; but it's not translated in FR by 'huis-clos', which is an artisitc rater than technical term.
46 mins
agree Carol Gullidge : given the additional context, this does seem to fit ;)
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Helen Shiner
1 hr
Thank you.
neutral philgoddard : Your reference says "Confrontation entre des personnes qui sont isolées du monde extérieur." "Closed set" doesn't cover that, in my opinion.
6 hrs
My definition in French shows two uses of the term. I provided both to give an overall sense of the usage of the word. If you don't like that definition, read the other one.
neutral Germaine : Any set can be a "closed set" at some point in time during a shooting. It's not a "location"; it's a requirement/proceedings for some scenes.// I understand words. What will be the meaning of this one when you won't be there to explain?
23 days
I know what a closed set is and I know it is not a "location", you are misunderstanding my answer.
disagree Francis Marche : The French term "huis-clos" applies to what is being stage IN FRONT OF the camera, not AROUND the cameras and crews. In other words the Eng term "closed set" with the meaning described by LaraBarnett is clearly a mistranslation
24 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+4
31 mins

huis-clos

In France, a "huis-clos" movie is a movie where all the action takes place in a single room.
The typical example is "12 angry men" where a jury of a homicide are in an isolated room to decide if a young man is guilt or not.

This term has been created after Jean-Paul Sartre's play called "huis-clos". The title has been translated by "No Exit" in English :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Exit

As for Italian giallo or Chinese Wu Xia Pian, it seems that there is no official term in English for that kind of movie. So, maybe, keeping the French term could be appropriate.
Note from asker:
Thanks Damien but I think Lara's answer of "closed set" which is an English film term is what we are looking for here.
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/huis-clos. It's the genre as the context provided clearly shows. This answer will help others who may search for the term in the future.
20 mins
agree Tony M : Yes, makes perfect sense in the context given; Greek drama and the "three unities"
26 mins
agree Jennifer Levey : The Fr term 'huis-clos' is used in En to describe movies having a single venue (be it indoors or, as in this case, outdoors). That single venue may have several distinct 'sets' - eg: separate rooms in a house - but they are all within a 'closed space'.
3 hrs
neutral philgoddard : I'm not convinced most English speakers would know what this means.
5 hrs
agree Rachel Fell : https://www.iffr.com/professionals/films/rachel-getting-marr... http://www.takeonecff.com/2014/belfast-film-festival-2014
24 days
Something went wrong...
+1
8 hrs

a single set

"un lieu unique", meaning the action is confined to a single set. The notion of "closed set" induced by a literal reading of "huis clos" is misleading IMHO.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : Which means that you could leave it out, since "lieu unique" means the same thing. Also, "location" may be better than "set", which to me implies something that's purpose built.
2 hrs
neutral Tony M : 'set' is a bit oblique for a cemetery. I think the idea conveyed by 'in one place', the claustrophobic notion of the action never occurring anywhere else, as in Damien's film example (courtroom) seems to me along the right lines.
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
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