English term
do not need vs. need not
Which is the correct one?
Jan 3, 2006 23:05: Walter Landesman changed "Language pair" from "English to Spanish" to "English"
Jan 4, 2006 02:52: Brie Vernier changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"
PRO (3): Сергей Лузан, Nick Lingris, Brie Vernier
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Responses
You probably don't need such a long explanation, but you needn't worry - you can always skip it.
Need + object is always a full verb, like 'want'.
e.g.
I need a drink. | The remote control needs new batteries. | You don't need lead to make gold. (Strange example, but this is where it belongs.) | I need glasses for reading.
Need + verb can also be a full verb. As a full verb it is usually followed by to-infinitive.
e.g.
He needs to see a doctor straightaway. | You need to let me know by Monday if you want to take part.
Fortunately I didn't need to pay for it. = I didn't have to pay for it. (i.e. I didn't pay) – but see 'I needn't have paid' below.
One exception to the 'need+to-infinitive' pattern is when 'need' is followed by –ing. This –ing verb has a passive meaning (same as want –ing).
e.g.
Does this shirt need ironing? = Does this shirt need to be ironed?
The plants need watering once a week. = The plants need to be watered…
Need is also a modal verb, like 'must': no –s in the third singular, no 'do' in questions and negatives, no past forms. And always followed by another verb (bare infinitive, i.e. infinitive without 'to'). In this respect, its main difference from 'must' is that we do not use it in affirmative sentences (unless with restrictive adverbs such as 'hardly' or 'only').
e.g.
We needn't stay long.
Need we leave so soon?
She's lazy, slow, and stubborn. Need I say more?
He need never find out what I said.
I need hardly remind you that this information is confidential.
We need only look at the building to see how much money it will take to repair.
Note its use with a perfect infinitive (i.e. have done sth):
I needn't have paid for it. (i.e. Unfortunately, I paid for it. Note the difference from "I didn't need to pay for it".)
[Most of the above examples taken from the Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English.]
The use of the modal in questions and negatives is more common in British English and a bit old-fashioned.
Whoever told you that "it is becoming more and more common to use 'do not need'" was referring to "needn't do" being replaced by "don't need to do" (though "don't have to do" is even more common).
Your second example (You don't need lead to make gold, i.e. need+noun) never created problems or doubts and has nothing to do with the modal 'need'.
Your first example (Noblemen need not pay taxes) is also fine. See this article entitled "Nobles need not pay taxes" (http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0201-23.htm) based on something written by Marc Bloch.
It would be equally correct to say "Noblemen do not need to pay taxes" but much more common to say "Noblemen do not have to pay taxes".
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Brie Vernier
: Very well put, Nick. The two expressions need not (!) "convey precisely the same idea" and most certainly can have very different meanings.
1 hr
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Thank you very much, Brie.
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Refugio
: Agree that there are shades of difference in meaning.
8 hrs
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Thank you, Ruth. And all the best!
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agree |
cmwilliams (X)
8 hrs
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Thanks, cm! All the best in the new year!
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agree |
Marina56
: ok
9 hrs
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Thank you, Marina. Happy 2006!
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agree |
juvera
11 hrs
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Thanks, Judith, and happy 2006!
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agree |
Rachel Fell
13 hrs
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Thanks, Rachel.
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Christine Andersen
: This explains it well - I didn't need to think it all out for myself ;-)
15 hrs
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;-}} Thanks!
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Vicky Papaprodromou
16 hrs
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explanation
v.aux.
To be under the necessity of or the obligation to: They need not come.
v.tr.
To have need of; require: The family needs money. See synonyms
There you can find some notes on usage.
Good luck
explanation
do not need (standard)
neutral |
Marcelo González
: "Need not" is NOT British; it's English, used on both sides of the Atlantic, as well as in the South Pacific (as our aussie and kiwi colleagues can surely attest). Happy New Year from the US!
26 mins
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disagree |
Richard Benham
: Also, "need not" must not be used for "must not".
8 hrs
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see
Need to / Don't need to
Needed to / Didn't need to
Ex. My hair needs cutting. / I don't need a rest.
I needed to get new tyres for my car. / I didn't need to tell him the truth.
2) Need: means "have to" as a special finite; it's defective, having only the one form. The 3rd. person singular present tense does not take -s. It forms it's interrogative form by inversion and it's negative by adding -not (needn't). It can make question phrases and can be followed by plain infinitive (without -to).
It's not used in affirmative sentences, only interrogative and negative ones. The affirmative is replaced by MUST or equivalents.
Ex.
Need he work so hard?
You needn't go yet, need you?
You needn't see him, but I must.
I can be used affirmatively with adverbs sucha as NEVER, HARDLY, etc. with negative implications.
The past tense is NEED...HAVE.
Ex.
Need you have scolded him so severely?
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Note added at 23 mins (2006-01-03 23:07:53 GMT)
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HOPE IT HELPS!
You do not need: You do not require
You need not do it: You do not have to do it
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Walter Landesman
4 mins
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GRACIAS!
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neutral |
Richard Benham
: You have not answered the question.
8 hrs
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I did my best to help the asker.
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both are correct
In colloquial speech in the UK I rarely hear "need not", though the contaction "needn't" does crop up from time to time, e.g.
"Shall I phone to let you know when they've arrived?"
"You needn't bother" ( = you do not need to bother)
Saying "you don't need to bother" would be perfectly correct, however.
I tend to come across "need not" more often in written English. One phrase which immediately leaps to mind is:
"Previous applicants need not reapply" (a polite way of saying "if you've tried applying to us before, we don't want to hear from you again!")
The short answer to your question, though, is that both are correct. I would only add that "need not" is probably less common in colloquial speech, and even then it is often contracted to "needn't".
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Marcelo González
: Both are correct, which is precisely the point I've made above. It has nothing to do with notions of correctness, and everything to do with usage (in different contexts). Happy New Year!
16 mins
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thanks - and happy New Year to you!
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Sophia Finos (X)
1 hr
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thanks
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agree |
Richard Benham
6 hrs
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thanks
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neutral |
Refugio
: Both are correct, but are often used differently.
8 hrs
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agree |
Rachel Fell
13 hrs
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"need not" is more unequivocal when a specific meaning is intended
"does not need to" may mean:
1. is not required to
2. has no need to
while "need not" - I THINK - only means "not required to".
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Note added at 3 hrs 22 mins (2006-01-04 02:07:14 GMT)
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(I'm sorry - you probably have enough reading material already!)
Just to demonstrate my point:
You can ALWAYS say "not need to", but you can only say "need not to" in specific cases.
E.g. You can say "I don't need to sleep now", but you can't say "I need not sleep" (when "need" = "have a need to")
agree |
Richard Benham
: I think you have a point, although further distinctions might need to be made.
8 hrs
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agree |
Marina56
: ok
11 hrs
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Discussion