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The same law - two different practices/interpretations - idiom needed
Received call for C/E that M/E is on fire
Mar 11, 2021 17:11
4 yrs ago
69 viewers *
English term

cultural language

English Art/Literary Linguistics
Dear colleagues,
I was wondering about the meaning of “cultural language” in the passage below: is it something like “second language”?
Thank you very much for every hint!

***********************************

As Sriganesh and Ponniah suggest, “Cultural language acquisition triggers the development of novel neural connections of brain areas corresponding to various language functions, changing the structure and functions of the brain.”
Responses
4 +3 learning a language while entrenched in its culture
4 +4 language acquisition to have better access to its culture
3 +1 speech or language which is tied to a specific society
2 Absorbing a language by embedding oneself in a culture
3 -1 nurture
3 -2 foreign language

Discussion

Peter Simon Mar 22, 2021:
@Yvonne, so just because some people don't realise that language and culture are ALWAYS ENTWINED, bad translators don't care about context and bad teachers don't point out those cultural aspects, there is CULTURE-LESS LANGUAGE?? Let me just say that with or without somebody's access to culture, language itself always carries intrinsic cultural meaning. But, true, the question need not be changed because the real answer has already been given on the basis of the meaning of the full phrase... ;) And what you're saying about those 'some language courses' is precisely the non-cultural/culture-less language acquisition and learning/teaching as opposed to that immersed in the cultural meanings. The authors' explanation quoted by the asker is clearly about a book about language acquisition, not simply language, whether cultural or otherwise, but they concentrate on the cultural acquisition type.
Yvonne Gallagher Mar 22, 2021:
@ Haribert you don't need to change anything. "cultural language" remains the same with or without "acquisition". That has been clear to me from the start and the authors say much the same > acquisition of the language should mean access to the culture. However, it doesn't always happen! I know places with language courses that deal strictly with terminology and grammar and never delve into culture at all. I also know so-called "translators" who deal only with words and not with the context, with evidence of that here on Kudoz on a regular basis:-(. So, language and culture SHOULD be entwined but are not necessarily so.
haribert (asker) Mar 22, 2021:
Dear colleagues, first of all I wish to thank you all for your help. Actually, I don't know how to change my question...which should actually be "cultural language acquisition", as the authors of the article have confirmed...
Peter Simon Mar 18, 2021:
Thanks, this reinforces what I've written but I'm wondering why somebody would still write based on Chomsky when his system is very old and outdated - it was old even when I studies EN teaching at UNI - 45 years ago. But this part more-or-less holds.
haribert (asker) Mar 18, 2021:
Dear colleagues, the authors of the article have kindly replied to my question. I’ll try to summarize their answer.
Their theoretical framework is Chomsky’s Principles and Parameters theory of language acquisition: according to this theory, some parts of language are already acquired or wired in the brain (principles). The term “cultural language acqusition” refers to aspects of language acquired through external (cultural) language input. “Parameters” are culturally learned aspects: according to some studies, parameter setting happens in the brain as people acquire languages: new brain networks emerge when different parameters are set through listening/reading in a cultural environment, resulting in the acquisition of a language.
So my question should actually have been “cultural language acquisition”, although I guess that in this particular context a more specific phrase might be: “culturally learned aspects of language”?
Peter Simon Mar 17, 2021:
Daryo, Can you see any (part of) language(s) that is not cultural??? If language doesn't exist without culture (and it doesn't), then no sense talking about cultural language or otherwise because there's no otherwise. That's why you have to add acquisition to the phrase. I've provided a lot of explanation earlier, if you don't understand, I'm just adding here the opinion of another teacher/teacher trainer from Quora.com:
"(Rosie Norman-Neubauer), I have been a language trainer (DELTA, Uni. Cambridge ESOL) for over 30 years ...
There is no such thing as a language in which cultural does not play an integral part. The way the language has evolved often has a cultural background as does phrases or sayings. Let’s take the idioms used in Business English: A good number of them are sports based and as we can see from the references used in them, e.g. a ballpark figure, they actually originated from the US (a nation full of sports enthusiasts). The US business world is known for its competitiveness so it makes sense to use sports idioms to explain or make a point. This is just one of the examples which show that culture creeps into every language and updates it on a regular basis."
Daryo Mar 17, 2021:
I can't see why adding "acquisition" would change in any way the meaning of "cultural language"???

That would simply mean that, for whatever reasons, someone is interested in a particular culture and wants to learn the associated language. The meaning of "cultural language" would STILL be the same.
haribert (asker) Mar 14, 2021:
Dear colleages, I'm actually beginning to have a doubt about my own question: whether it is "cultural language" or "cultural language acquisition", so I have decided to write to the authors of the article. As soon as I have an answer, I let you know.
In the meanwhile, I really wish to thank you all for trying to help me.
Peter Simon Mar 12, 2021:
cont. Otherwise, what would 'cultural language acquisition' mean other than language acquisition in a cultural context? Language acquisition can take place without stress on cultural aspects (like my Russian lessons for a decade), compared to the kind that leans on that aspect very much. That's what 'cultural language acquisition' is, outside school, or without the help of teachers, like while watching movie films or documentaries on the target culture, or on nature, peoples talking the target language and the like.
Peter Simon Mar 12, 2021:
@haribert I haven't done such research, I simply did that project for a couple of years I've referred to, and as EN teachers, we were (made, then were) fully aware that language is always a cultural phenomenon. Logically, if language is always cultural, it means that there's no opposite - no 'un- or non-cultural' language exists, so the phrase 'cultural language' makes no sense. That follows from the rule of dichotomies. But teaching languages can be done without involving culture, like when I was young and we were made to learn Russian in the 60s without even learning to ask for stuff in a shop. And EN teaching was like that to some extent even in the 80s in Middle-Europe. That's when cultural language teaching came into being later, and as languages are mostly taught in schools, not acquired in natural ways, no wonder you can't find anything about 'cultural language acquisition', to a large extent because language acquisition naturally happens in a cultural context, so no need to stress it in the literature. But my main point is that the question is wrong. If it were considered correct, what would it mean to speak about the acquisition of cultural language?
haribert (asker) Mar 12, 2021:
@ Peter I see what you mean and I also had this doubt, but I haven't found many references about "cultural language acquisition"....that's why I thought it probably is "cultural language"... Do you perhaps have some specific references about "cultural language acquisition" (I've found above all about "crosscultural language acquisition" only)
Lisa Rosengard Mar 12, 2021:
I read a discussion question about immigration and its relevance to language and culture or cultural language, with second language acquisition. I think migration is more commonly used as a definition of people who move to another country or area for economic or other reasons. It's important in the topic of discussion. I understood it to be equally about local or geographic expressions or idioms which are present or active in the same country. It might be about people being local or native to a place, as opposed to being an incomer in a place.
Nicholas Laurier Eveneshen Mar 12, 2021:
I agree with Peter.
Peter Simon Mar 12, 2021:
The question is wrong because the phrase is 'cultural language acquisition' i.e. the acquisition of language through and involving more culture than sheer language. It's language acquisition which is cultural, which is a relatively new phenomenon. Before the 1990s EN language teaching concentrated on teaching the language. The BC began to seek for ways of teaching EN culture as well as the language then, for which we in Hungary created a workgroup of teachers and with the help of the BC published a book that concentrated on L2 teaching through cultural topics. The other side of teaching is acquisition, involving the learner in the cultural surroundings more than a language class, which is more about teaching. But the question is not cultural language - language is always cultural, we (L2 teachers) just don't always pay attention.
haribert (asker) Mar 12, 2021:
@ Daryo thank you for your contribution! Maybe you could post an answer so I can give you the points: actually you've pointed out some aspects that I overlooked: probably the concept of "cultural language" doesn't necessarily imply that you live in the country where the language is spoken, although I think (but by no means am I sure) that in this case it might refer to people living in a foreign country, for example immigrants. Do you think this may also be a possible interpretation?
Daryo Mar 11, 2021:
@ haribert I was about to post it as my answer, but you've already found it. The best definition:

"cultural language":
"a language that is learned by many members of other speech communities for the sake of access to the culture of which it is the vehicle."

that seems to be different from the concept of "vehicular language" (as opposed to "vernacular").

Latin or Ancient Greek could be seen as a "cultural language" , but being "dead languages" certainly not as a "vehicular language".

BTW, for those obsessed with "simplifying" all and any ST: the "cultural" bit is a key element, definitely not to be thrown under the carpet.
Nicholas Laurier Eveneshen Mar 11, 2021:
Phil Goddard's remark to my post is worth considering too; he probably means that all language is inherently cultural, since what is a language without the culture from which it springs, in which it's used, etc., so even saying "cultural language" is a bit redundant. But yes, your authors' comments are effectively pointing out that learning another language is inherently tied to learning another culture, i.e. that language's culture, which is a deeply powerful and difficult process, and which you naturally undergo as a child embedded in your own culture, absorbing your mother tongue.
haribert (asker) Mar 11, 2021:
Hi, I've found the following definition of "cultural language":
"a language that is learned by many members of other speech communities for the sake of access to the culture of which it is the vehicle."
So it seems that this expression doesn't refer to one's own mother tongue, but more to a "second language" acquisition... maybe..
haribert (asker) Mar 11, 2021:
Some more context from the book The Developing Mind, third edition:

As we’ve been seeing, language is both limiting and liberating. Personal
development as well as cultural evolution are shaped by language, molded by
the words we use.86 As Sriganesh and Ponniah suggest, “Cultural language
acquisition triggers the development of novel neural connections of brain
areas corresponding to various language functions, changing the structure
and functions of the brain.”87 How can language help us summarize such
notions and bring ideas of integration and identity not only into changes in
our own neural networks, but out into the interconnected social networks of
the world? Tamariz and Kirby provide some insights into this question:

Responses

+3
13 mins
Selected

learning a language while entrenched in its culture

Without knowing these authors nor their books, I would say it sounds like they're hinting at more of a relativistic view of language, such that the culture you have direct contact with (the one you grow up, in for example), directly influences your linguistic development.

This is especially true of your mother tongue and can occur when you live in a foreign country and absorb its language while you're entrenched in the culture.
Note from asker:
Thank you very much, Nicholas, for your contribution.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : I'm not sure "cultural" actually adds anything to the sentence.
1 min
Indeed!
agree Tina Vonhof (X) : The culture in which you acquire a language influences the way your brain is programmed (that explains having an accent for example).
2 hrs
True.
neutral Daryo : once you get a definition, it doesn't sound like your explanation.// it's more: "learning a language in order to be immersed in its culture"
5 hrs
The only definition I could find of "cultural language" is actually "culture language," from Merriam-Webster online, which itself has no citations or sources. But I agree with your comment about the necessity of getting to know a culture via its language
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : no, not "while entrenched in its culture"// Do you think learning is not "acquisition"? And agree with Phil that "cultural" adds nothing?/no idea what Peter Simon is waffling about either
19 hrs
Mine is for the entire noun phrase "cultural language acquisition," not just "cultural language." I agree with Phil because parcity is a virtue, but if haribert wants to stick close to the ST, then I did my best to explain the entire noun phrase.
agree Peter Simon : Strictly speaking, learning and acquisition are opposites! Yvonne's got it a bit wrong asking about it. The answer is NO. But if you meant to answer the whole 3-word phrase, you're right.
1 day 3 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 hr

Absorbing a language by embedding oneself in a culture

Soaking up a language by embedding in that language's culture

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Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-11 18:55:35 GMT)
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Other option: Absorbing a language by embedding oneself a society

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Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-11 18:57:29 GMT)
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Correction to other option: Absorbing a language by embedding oneself in within a society.
Note from asker:
Thank you Orkoyen for your contribution!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not quite, I think it's actually about active learning rather than about passive "absorbing" or "soaking up"
18 hrs
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-2
2 hrs

foreign language

I think the author means a language from a different culture.
Note from asker:
Thank you so much, Kiet Bach, for your help! I also tend to think it is more in the sense of "second language"...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : it is a foreign language, but learned ONLY for a limited purpose, so just "foreign language" is ways too vague.
3 hrs
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : really vague and "a language from a different culture" does NOT equate to "cultural language"
18 hrs
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-1
6 hrs

nurture

if I have understood right, the meaning of it is like the definition of nurture in the difference between nurture e nature. It is like the impact of the environment (culture, beliefs, behaviors) in your process of language acquisition.

You can read more in some articles, try Chomsky's.
Reference:

https://www.ukessays.com/essays/linguistics/nature-and-nurture-in-language-acquisition.php

Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : Chomsky is certainly worth reading, but this has not much to with the nurture/nature dichotomy.
15 mins
could you explain why this dichotomy has not to do with? For me the nurture is the cultural part of the process of acquistion. We does not have the whole context, but I have found that Kirby works on cognitive linguistic and has relation with that debate.
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : no, it's not about nurture. And you can't just say "try Chomsky" as an explanation
13 hrs
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+4
22 hrs
English term (edited): cultural language acquisition

language acquisition to have better access to its culture

There is a definition (see below), already found by Asker. Not sure I'd fully agree with it (especially the "many members part") but it's a starting point.
We all agree, I think, that language is vitally important to the transmission of culture. And that culture is an inherent part of language evolution and development.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture language#...

"Definition of cultural language
: a language that is learned by many members of other speech communities for the sake of access to the culture of which it is the vehicle"

NB that this is ANOTHER language actively acquired in order to get better acquainted with the culture of that language (I hesitate to use the word "second" as it may be the 3rd, 4th or nth language acquired. No one is talking about level of fluency here either)

Say that someone loves Thai food and wants to know more about how it's produced and cooked and the various foods for different festivals, traditions and so on. They then decide they want to learn a bit of the Thai language so they can learn even more about the food and culture it is part of e.g how Buddhism is so important, the monarchy, cultural taboos, etc., so they may take some classes so they can converse with Thai people. The least they will do is learn the names of the dishes, "gaengs", "toms" or "paeds", and ingredients in Thai rather than just saying "green curry" or "red curry" (since they are very different from Indian curries and have many variations as well!) They will have to take a more active approach if they want to learn more.

Idiomatic language in particular is bound up in culture. For example, business English has a lot of sports based idioms from a sports-mad and quite competitive society, such as: level playing field, a ballpark figure, hitting first base...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_idioms

So language acquisition should not only be about the vocabulary and grammar but the cultural background as well. This language acquisition impacts our brain development as well, as is shown in various studies. There is a lot of ongoing and interesting work on this topic and how the brain is affected by this. e.g.
https://medium.com/swlh/the-effects-of-second-language-acqui...

I'd agree to an extent re comments about language teaching prior to the 90s. Obviously we all passively absorbed the culture of our native language but learning foreign languages was mostly based on grammar and vocab. in my childhood though I remember learning something about literature, art and food as well. However, at university level we had to learn a lot about cultural background, including art, politics, history, music, food, and so on. and write essays on the literature incorporating aspects of the cultural background for the languages, French and Spanish, which I studied. I also went on to teach all three languages and certainly included as many cultural aspects as possible to involve my students.

Language really does not exist in a vacuum and should not be taught as if it did.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/language/Language-and-socia...

"If language is transmitted as part of culture, it is no less true that culture as a whole is transmitted very largely through language, insofar as it is explicitly taught."

And then there are multilingual countries such as India with different languages associated with regional, political and/or religious cultural differences More here:

https://www.thehindu.com/thread/arts-culture-society/india-a...

Fascinating anyway. And it seems that the more languages we speak and use the better our protection against Alzheimer's!
Note from asker:
Thank you so much, Yvonne, for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans
1 day 9 hrs
Many thanks:-)
agree Daryo
5 days
Many thanks:-)
agree Anju Okhandiar (X) : Agree
23 days
Thanks:-)
agree Dheerendra Sharma : Agree
24 days
Thanks:-)
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+1
8 hrs

speech or language which is tied to a specific society

Culture is about the customs and art of a particular society.
The language we use to express ourselves probably reflects the society, the place or the culture in which we live. Popular examples are about English from various parts of Scotland, Wales and Ireland as well as regions in England, whereby each geographical society probably has some specific language items which are inherently tied to the area, though the cultures and lifestyles are probably similar throughout.
It's within a topic area of linguistics in teaching English as a second language and in initial language learning from a very young age. There's a reference to the relationship between language education and culture.
"Language policy must be used to create awareness and understanding of cultural differences, incorporating cultural values."
(It's interesting to read the information on the effects of cultural language acquisition on the brain and the changes which might take place in the brain.)

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Note added at 1 day 46 mins (2021-03-12 17:58:02 GMT)
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The cultural background of a place is reflected in its language, with particular phrases and
expressions which are connected to speech. One example is in the field of business communication when Americanisms might be used for specific purposes of business interactions. This can become part of an idiomatic use of English in certain areas of work.
In another reference to language and culture, it's explained that a particular language represents the culture of a particular social group. Culture is a central point within communicative interaction, which is explained through linguistic expressions and descriptions, without which no understanding of culture takes place.

https://www.languagemagazine.com/blurring-the-line-between-l...

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Note added at 2 days 4 hrs (2021-03-13 22:05:47 GMT)
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There's a reference explaining a socio-cultural theory (Vygotxky 1978, 1986, 1987), which includes language learning as part of the human general learning process. 'It's a theory which can be applied to second language acquisition, with an explanation from a socio-cultural perspective. That way, learners acquire knowledge and the use of a second language by interacting and socializing with speakers of that language. Central to a socio-cultural theory, language learning and cognitive development are a result of social interactions within social and material environments. Cultural and linguistic settings include family life, peer groups, schooling and organized sports activities, whereby interactions with people are essential in the development of thinking.' "Socio-cultural theory considers language as an important mediation tool in the development of higher mental processes of learning." (Vygotsky 1986)"
https://elta.org.rs/kio/nl/02-2015/serbia-elta-newsletter-Fe...

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Note added at 2 days 5 hrs (2021-03-13 22:18:25 GMT)
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With respect to language and culture, the Gaelic languages of Ireland and the highlands and western isles of Scotland reflect the local and native culture, history, lifestyles and geography of the areas. Similar examples are found with the Welsh language and those of the Isles of Mann and Wight. Aside from those are the varying dialects used from time to time among groups within families, neighbourhood localities and communities, which are usually spoken more than written. There's also the Auld Scotch dialect, such as is found in the poetic works of Robert Burns, and the old English found in Shakespeare's poetry and theatrical plays. Social and cultural influences and trends on language can be issues in translation, while the original styles and levels of language should be maintained throughout. Translations should reflect and replicate each of the original sources of speech and writing used in working practice.

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Note added at 2 days 5 hrs (2021-03-13 22:48:59 GMT)
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Traditions and religions are also connected to culture, with some particular language and relative vocabulary.
However, more time and emphasis resides with mainstream society and its associated relevant language.
Reference:

https://www.tefl.net/elt/articles/teacher-technique/language-culture/

Note from asker:
Thank you Lisa for your interesting contribution! In this case, I tend to think that "cultural language" refers to people learning a language different from their mothertongue...for instance, as a second language, as you mentioned
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : your explanation and link is about language culture, not cultural language. Two very different concepts in language
11 hrs
agree Orkoyen (X) : Hmm, I see what you mean in that “absorb” sounds passive
11 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : language of the Isle of Wight?? You mean Wighty?
1 day 23 hrs
neutral Daryo : inverted word order does make a difference.
5 days
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