Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
the FBI are or is?
English answer:
both are correct in BE
Added to glossary by
Patsy Florit
Dec 22, 2009 20:05
14 yrs ago
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English term
the FBI are or is?
Non-PRO
English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
I´d like to know if I can use The FBI are investigating or is investigating sounds better
Responses
5 +9 | both are correct in BE | Sheila Wilson |
3 +12 | is | Paula Vaz-Carreiro |
5 +1 | IS | Ildiko Santana |
4 +1 | is | Daniel Frisano |
Responses
+9
2 hrs
Selected
both are correct in BE
In American English, the singular would be used. In British English, either can be used. To quote from Longman English Grammar:
Some collective nouns such as audience, class, club, committee, company, ... can be used with singular or plural verbs.
... when we think of them in an impersonal fashion, i.e. as a whole group:
The present GOVERNMENT, WHICH HASN'T been in power long, ...
... when we think of them in a more personal way, i.e. as the individuals that make up the group:
The GOVERNMENT, WHO ARE looking for a quick victory, ...
End of quote
Note that you must be careful to use "who" with the plural verb as you are effectively referring to people rather than an impersonal organisation.
So: The FBI [organisation] is ...
The FBI [officers] are ...
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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-12-22 22:20:51 GMT)
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A note about police - in both language variants, the correct usage is "the police ARE". The singular verb goes with "the police FORCE IS".
To quote again from the above book:
The following collective nouns must be followed by a plural verb; they do not have plural forms: cattle, the clergy, ..., the police, swine, vermin
The example given is "The police have surrounded the building"
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Note added at 12 hrs (2009-12-23 08:43:25 GMT)
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@ John
Towns and countries usually take a singular verb (even plural nouns such as "the Netherlands"!), although there can be exceptions, at least in BE. If Belgium refers to the football team, the Olympic team etc, then it can be plural. The Daily Telegraph can most certainly take a plural verb, as can Shell, Philips etc (check out their websites)
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-12-23 21:08:59 GMT)
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@ John again
Clearly, "X is a company" is the only possibility, "X are a company" would sound odd to anyone, I'm sure.
However, I worked for Shell for many years and know well that the company sometimes referred to itself with a plural verb. Certainly, there are more instances of singular verb, but the plurals are there too.
Shell produce: http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/aeroshell/technic...
Shell anounces + Shell are : http://www.shell.co.uk/home/content/gbr/aboutshell/media_cen...
Shell have : http://www.shell.co.uk/home/content/gbr/aboutshell/careers/s...
My reason for quoting Philips was that I noticed the plural form on their site a while back - of course, I can't find it now apart from in the Eco Design part of this page, where it says "Philips are".
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-12-23 21:20:11 GMT)
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Here, the BBC says (or should I say "say";-)) "the FBI are investigating": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7978379.stm
Difficult to really tie these things down, in the absence of clear directives from grammars, which are all busy hedging their bets where British English usage is concerned.
Some collective nouns such as audience, class, club, committee, company, ... can be used with singular or plural verbs.
... when we think of them in an impersonal fashion, i.e. as a whole group:
The present GOVERNMENT, WHICH HASN'T been in power long, ...
... when we think of them in a more personal way, i.e. as the individuals that make up the group:
The GOVERNMENT, WHO ARE looking for a quick victory, ...
End of quote
Note that you must be careful to use "who" with the plural verb as you are effectively referring to people rather than an impersonal organisation.
So: The FBI [organisation] is ...
The FBI [officers] are ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-12-22 22:20:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A note about police - in both language variants, the correct usage is "the police ARE". The singular verb goes with "the police FORCE IS".
To quote again from the above book:
The following collective nouns must be followed by a plural verb; they do not have plural forms: cattle, the clergy, ..., the police, swine, vermin
The example given is "The police have surrounded the building"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2009-12-23 08:43:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@ John
Towns and countries usually take a singular verb (even plural nouns such as "the Netherlands"!), although there can be exceptions, at least in BE. If Belgium refers to the football team, the Olympic team etc, then it can be plural. The Daily Telegraph can most certainly take a plural verb, as can Shell, Philips etc (check out their websites)
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-12-23 21:08:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@ John again
Clearly, "X is a company" is the only possibility, "X are a company" would sound odd to anyone, I'm sure.
However, I worked for Shell for many years and know well that the company sometimes referred to itself with a plural verb. Certainly, there are more instances of singular verb, but the plurals are there too.
Shell produce: http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/aeroshell/technic...
Shell anounces + Shell are : http://www.shell.co.uk/home/content/gbr/aboutshell/media_cen...
Shell have : http://www.shell.co.uk/home/content/gbr/aboutshell/careers/s...
My reason for quoting Philips was that I noticed the plural form on their site a while back - of course, I can't find it now apart from in the Eco Design part of this page, where it says "Philips are".
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-12-23 21:20:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here, the BBC says (or should I say "say";-)) "the FBI are investigating": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7978379.stm
Difficult to really tie these things down, in the absence of clear directives from grammars, which are all busy hedging their bets where British English usage is concerned.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
cmwilliams (X)
59 mins
|
Thanks
|
|
agree |
Francesco Badolato
: A very useful "lesson".
2 hrs
|
Thanks
|
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agree |
Kim Metzger
2 hrs
|
Thanks
|
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agree |
Filippe Vasconcellos de Freitas Guimarães
: nicely explained
3 hrs
|
Thanks
|
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agree |
KathyT
: great answer.
3 hrs
|
Thanks
|
|
neutral |
John Detre
: I think FBI is a proper name, not a collective noun. If names of organizations/institutions are to be considered collective nouns because they consist of groups of individuals, then why not "New York City are," "Belgium are," "the Daily Telegraph are"?
5 hrs
|
My reply is above, John
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neutral |
Peter Skipp
: I'm with John here. As a BE speaker, I despair of confusion between (multiple) individuals and (singular) organisations. Also, Longman is not the definitive source on grammar; many an authortative house style would differ!
10 hrs
|
I don't believe that there is a "definitive" source on grammar for the English language so yes, I agree, some would differ. The point I feel should be made is that as translators we need to use a style that reflects the language of the day.
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agree |
Christine Andersen
: I would say 'the police are' because in my BE mind I see lots of indvidual policemen. But the police force IS... I waver about constabulary, and check corporate websites for corporate policy in each case - some corporate bodies prefer plural themselves.
10 hrs
|
Thanks very much for those comments Christine
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agree |
kmtext
: Good explanation.
12 hrs
|
Thanks
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agree |
Ledja
14 hrs
|
Thanks
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agree |
British Diana
: It's time I came down off the fence so yes, I agree with you Sheila. The proportion of "is" to "are" voters reflects the status quo anyway!
1 day 8 hrs
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Thanks. I think "are" is much more common, but I don't like to say that something is incorrect, just because it's a minority
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, this answer would be the most suitable for me. Even though the singular verb is more common, I cannot consider the plural BE wrong."
+12
3 mins
is
I would say that, the FBI being an organization, it should be "is"
HTH
HTH
Peer comment(s):
agree |
jccantrell
: Gotta go with the one that shows up first.
1 min
|
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
Taña Dalglish
: Absolutely; the entity "is"; or "the FBI field offices are manned ..". Happy holidays.
2 mins
|
Thanks and happy holidays to you too :-)
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agree |
Jack Doughty
: I think the same, but I'm from the UK too. Let's see what those in the USA think.
2 mins
|
:-) Yes. Thanks Jack and happy festivities.
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agree |
Demi Ebrite
22 mins
|
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
JaneTranslates
28 mins
|
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
John Detre
34 mins
|
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
Peter Skipp
1 hr
|
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
Stephanie Ezrol
2 hrs
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Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
Richard McDorman
: Please go with "is." It's true that British English accepts "are" but to American ears, "are" sounds odd.
5 hrs
|
:-) Thanks and happy festivities!
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agree |
Filippe Vasconcellos de Freitas Guimarães
: The FBI is a U.S. agency after all
5 hrs
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Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
Thayenga
: Happy Holidays. :)
5 hrs
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Thanks and happy festivities :-)
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agree |
Rolf Keiser
11 hrs
|
Thanks and happy festivities :-)
|
+1
3 mins
is
it's a (one) bureau... why "are"?
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
stra
: because we say, for example, "the police are"
14 mins
|
agree |
Peter Skipp
: Absolutely: IS because the FBI is a single entity; "the police are" is a dreadful solecism
1 hr
|
+1
6 mins
IS
The FBI as an entity IS -- I know, it could get confusing because the police "are" (plural) but that is more generic while the FBI is one specific institution.
Examples:
"The FBI is looking into accusations that"
"The FBI is investigating allegations that ..."
"In response to Freedom of Information Act requests, the FBI released its files on ..."
Examples:
"The FBI is looking into accusations that"
"The FBI is investigating allegations that ..."
"In response to Freedom of Information Act requests, the FBI released its files on ..."
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Peter Skipp
: "the police are" is a dreadful solecism that goes unnoticed in everyday speech. Here, we get asked to "split hairs" (in the sense of providing quality opinion on matters of language), and if one splits hairs, the police IS, and so is the FBI!
1 hr
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Discussion
This being said, the much derided google test does suggest that, even in the UK, the preferred usage is "Shell is" by a wide margin. A search of the www.shell.co.uk site yields 134 hits for "Shell is" compared with 13 hits for "Shell are," and in only 4 of those 13 is Shell the singular subject of the sentence (the other 9 are for phrases such as "The world's largest credit card issuer and Shell are offering UK consumers a world class credit card...").
I agree that there are some cases in which singular proper nouns are routinely treated as plural, such as the names of sports teams, but to extend this principle to all names of organizations and consider them all to be collective nouns gives us results that are, at best, unusual. I'm not sure what the rule is here. Maybe someone has written a PhD thesis in linguistics on the subject, but that will have to be research for another day.
Happy holidays!
BTW my sample sentence was perhaps not so clear-cut. Perhaps "The Stasi /the FBI often try to use blackmail." vs "The Stasi/the FBI often tries to use blackmail."
On its British website, Philips says: "Royal Philips Electronics of the Netherlands is a diversified Health and Well-being company..." (www.philips.co.uk/about/company) Would "Philips are a diversified company" be another possibility in the UK?
I get two ghits for "The Daily Telegraph are" and in both the name of the newspaper is not the subject of the sentence ("the editors of the Daily Telegraph are...," "the owners of the Daily Telegraph are...")
I admit I am not well versed in BE and I'm ready to be corrected. But I just can't find the constructions you suggest. Could you be a bit more specific about where to look?
What would people say (and is it comparible to the FBI)?:
-The Stasi was a repressive organisation or
-The Stasi were a repressive organisation?