Jun 6, 2012 18:13
12 yrs ago
English term
Mariela Olguin
Who like / likes
Non-PRO
English
Other
Education / Pedagogy
Dear all,
Help! I'm having a discussion with my boss on this:
a) WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO LIKEs DOGS AND THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO LIKEs BIRDS?
I personally think it's 'who like' (no 's'), but she's convinced the verb takes the 's'. Could you please help me???
Thank you!
Mariela
Help! I'm having a discussion with my boss on this:
a) WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO LIKEs DOGS AND THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO LIKEs BIRDS?
I personally think it's 'who like' (no 's'), but she's convinced the verb takes the 's'. Could you please help me???
Thank you!
Mariela
Responses
| 5 | who like |
Jean-Claude Gouin
|
| 5 +12 | who like |
Tony M
|
Responses
7 mins
Jean-Claude Gouin
Canada
Canada
Canada
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Native in: French 
Works in: French to English, English to French, French, and 1 more.
Selected
who like
"Like' refers to the 'number' and not 'students'.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+12
4 mins
who like
In this particular instance, it has to be the 3rd person plural verb 'like'
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Note added at 8 mins (2012-06-06 18:21:26 GMT)
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This is always a potential problem with collective terms like 'number of...', group of...', and in some cases, the verb could be either singular (referring to the collective set as a whole) or singular (referring to the individual members).
However, in the specific instance you have here, to my mind it is clear-cut: we are talking about a number of people, and those people all individually like dogs / birds.
If we were talking, for example, about 'a group of people that is lobbying for a reform of the law', then the lobbying is a collective group action, and I believe an argument can be made for the use of the singular verb 'is' — though I freely admit that my example is not very well chosen!
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Note added at 10 mins (2012-06-06 18:23:52 GMT)
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There is an old chestnut: 'none of our submarines is missing' (or 'are'?) — the original argument went that 'none' in fact means 'not one', and hence requires a singular verb; but this has now rather been debunked, and modern usage tends to go for 'none of our submarines are missing'
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2012-06-06 18:21:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
This is always a potential problem with collective terms like 'number of...', group of...', and in some cases, the verb could be either singular (referring to the collective set as a whole) or singular (referring to the individual members).
However, in the specific instance you have here, to my mind it is clear-cut: we are talking about a number of people, and those people all individually like dogs / birds.
If we were talking, for example, about 'a group of people that is lobbying for a reform of the law', then the lobbying is a collective group action, and I believe an argument can be made for the use of the singular verb 'is' — though I freely admit that my example is not very well chosen!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2012-06-06 18:23:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
There is an old chestnut: 'none of our submarines is missing' (or 'are'?) — the original argument went that 'none' in fact means 'not one', and hence requires a singular verb; but this has now rather been debunked, and modern usage tends to go for 'none of our submarines are missing'
Note from asker:
| Thank you Tony for your answer! It was very helpful! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Sheila Wilson
6 mins
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Thanks, Sheila!
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| agree |
Kim Metzger
: "They take plural verbs when they are used as indefinite quantifiers" http://www.writing.utoronto.ca/advice/english-as-a-second-la...
19 mins
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Thanks, Kim... and especially for that authoritative if technical explanation!
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| agree |
katsy
28 mins
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Thanks, Katsy!
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| agree |
Veronika McLaren
29 mins
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Thanks, Veronika!
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| agree |
Jack Doughty
35 mins
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Thanks, Jack!
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| agree |
Charles Davis
: "the number of [plural noun] who" will always take a plural verb, I think. "Students who like dogs" (or whatever) are the entities being counted.
2 hrs
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Thanks, Charles!
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| agree |
Sabine Akabayov, PhD
2 hrs
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Thanks, sibsab!
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| agree |
Simon Mac
: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/is-number-singular-or-plural... Consider: The number of people who LIKE (plural=people) dogs IS (singular=number) increasing
3 hrs
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Thanks, YX! Yes, very good example!
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| agree |
Armorel Young
: Yes - as Charles says, it's about "students who like dogs" - the verb doesn't change just because you stick "number of" in front of that
13 hrs
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Thanks, Armorel! Precisely!
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| agree |
B D Finch
: I would go for "none of our submarines is missing"! "None are missing" sounds completely wrong to me. Does that mean I'm an old fogey?
16 hrs
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Thanks, B! Well, I was brought up the same way, but now I'm not so sure...
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| agree |
Phong Le
19 hrs
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Thanks, Phong Le!
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| agree |
jccantrell
: English is funny that way.
20 hrs
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Thanks, J-C! I don't see why it is only EN, the same issue arises in other languages too, it's just that the 'rule' may be different. How would it be here in FR?
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