Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Yes, a misnomer... Glad you asked. We as language professionals are not limited to the semantic realm, as you call it. Sure, we don't practice law, but we need to understand it in order to translate accurately. Moreover, in the extreme cases when there are no legal counterparts bet. legal systems, we need to understand the SL law in order to come up with a suitable TL term for a given concept.

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

Yes, a misnomer... I understand, Sandro, and I can see why Libertad Condicional is acceptable for Parole. But just this: don't we as language professionals only toil in the semantic realm? We don't practice or interpret the Law.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Condena Condicional is not a sentence Legally, condena condicional is not a sentence; semantically, it is. This is why it is a misnomer.

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

Libertad Condicional I understand your points, Sandro. I simply have a problem with the equation, Parole=Libertad Condicional. It only works within the pluralized bubbles of Jurisprudence that exist across Spanish-speaking countries. Their con-text give these instances specificity. Outside of these bubbles, it doesn't amount to any specificity. Ultimately, accuracy is compromised, because Conditional Release is too generic. Sandro, do you know how Parole (from the French) evolved into the criminal justice concept we know today? That would be good to find out...

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

Condena Condicional is a sentence Sandro, I think that a suspended sentence is a type of sentence, nonetheless. Said terms and conditions-- onerous or not-- end up being the "punishment", which in our context refers to a Sentence. It's a Conditional Sentence, the raw, literal translation of Condena Condicional.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Yes, condena condicional, not because it makes complete semantic sense, but because it's the given legal term that encompasses the concept of a suspended sentence in the Spanish-speaking countries.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Rebecca, A condena condicional is not considered a sentence under Spanish law or any other in Spanish. Instead, it’s considered to be a suspended sentence. Check Art. 80 et. seq. of the Spanish Penal Code (suspensión de la ejecución de la pena). Authors that have documented that condena condicional is a misnomer:<br>
-Díaz de León, Marco Antonio. Diccionario de derecho procesal penal.
-Maqueda Abreu, María Luisa. Suspensión condicional de la pena y «probation».<br>
A defendant that has a suspended sentence is not serving a sentence, but rather is complying with the court’s conditions in order to avoid what was suspended.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

probación I don't want to get too caught up with the term probación. I should not have included it in the heading of my answer, and I wish I could change that part without disrupting the rest of the discussions. It is a secondary choice to be used sparingly, if at all.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Resoponse to Part I-III José,

Let me turn the tables on the literal translation concept of libertad condicional-conditional release. What if we were to translate parole as palabra? After all, parole means “word” in French.<br>
With regard to using preparatoria universally, it’s not our place to use a regionalism, even if it may make more semantic sense, and apply it in lieu of another term that already exists for the same concept. I believe that only when a legal concept does not exist in the TL may we as translators come up our own term.

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

So, Condena Condicional I hope this discussion finally settles this question about "Probation". Condena Condicional: not because it's used in Spain, México, or anywhere else, but because it makes complete semantic sense. It is a translation through distillation, giving us the most comprehensive term that can be universally accepted in Spanish; the words Condena and Condicional are clear and intelligible. Whence, the problem with Parole. I don't think Libertad Condicional quite captures the concept, because the words are too generic. If they appear in multiple Codes in Spain and Latin America, as Sandro's research points out, it is usually within a section, or sections that are specifically discussing a prison sentence. In other words, the text surrounding the words allow them to be understood with a certain specificity. But if we just take PAROLE=LIBERTAD CONDICIONAL in a vacuum, it doesn't add up. It is a very specific program being explained by very generic words. The translation is lackluster. Perhaps Libertad Vigilada can be avoided, but what about universally accepting "preparatoria" or Uruguay's "anticipada"? Why not?

Rebecca Jowers Jun 21, 2010:

Sandro, Yes, all of this is certainly more complicated than expressed here! But in Spain “condena condicional” is indeed a sentence—a sentence that is imposed but (usually) not executed. The judge imposes a sentence and if certain conditions are met (the offender cannot be a recividist and the sentence must be for less than two years), the judge has the discretion to suspend the enforcement of the sentence as long as the offender complies with the terms the judge imposes. If the offender does not comply with those terms, the “condena conditional” will be revoked and he will have to serve the sentence initially imposed. As for “libertad vigilada,” once again I think it should be underscored that in Spain (at present) the expression is formally used in the context of juvenile justice, and does not currently describe any sentence or other conditions imposed on adult offenders. (There is a proposed reform of the CP that would introduce “libertad vigilada” for certain offenses, but this has not yet been passed: http://www.senado.es/legis9/publicaciones/html/maestro/index... Thus for Spain "libertad vigilada" should probably be avoided when translating for "probation" or "parole".

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

As far as probación, well... There are a great, many lexicons out there that are simply too all-inclusive. The DRAE is quite specific. Check it out! Also: legal treatises? When everyday I see a given defendant getting probation, it has nothing to do with an obscure Spanish juridical concept. The fact is that many years ago, before the advent of the Court Interpreting academy and solid research, a bilingual person, and many thereafter, decided that is was easy to say "probación" when they heard probation. It was a matter of phonetic expedience; at the time, the word didn't exist in this context. It's just another false cognate. It's worse, actually. Why is it not a calque? A calque is a phenomena where SEMANTIC elements are borrowed from a another language. "Probación" only borrows phonetic elements. It's only a contrivance, with empty meaning. It is, in fact, an insidious way of dumbing down the language, which is not unheard of when materials are prepared for Spanish-speaking communities. It should simply never be used for this. It's complete disuse should be advocated. Why not?

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Jose,<br>
[continued from feedback in my answer post] For "conditional discharge" & "probation" -- one could provide "libertad a prueba" & "condena condicional," respectively, but it seems strange to call a "libertad a prueba" a sentence. Moreover, there are also problems with the term in that it is going through a metamorphosis in Puerto Rico from a suspended sentence into a sentence and it only amounts to a generic term in other countries. If anything, I would use the Cuban term "limitación de libertad," which is a sentence and is in line with the concept of a "pena restrictiva de libertad," but then how do I differentiate between the two if I'm translating for a Cuban?

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

Part III: A humble question Is not "preparatoria" a word that is or can be universally accepted in the Spanish language, if we open the curtains that separate all of us for a second? And when I say "accepted", I mean understood; I think everyone would agree that "preparar" is verb readily understood by anyone with a third grade (?) understanding of the Spanish language. It's not difficult to surmise that the suffix "-toria" makes it an adjective. In fact, it's root makes it a most friendly cognate with the English "prepare", so even an English speaker could make that out...imagine that!

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

Part II ...is a real term used in court-- a real generic term, because it can happen at ANY point in the proceedings. Even before the proceedings themselves. A cop can conditionally release you. So, if Libertad Conditional is Conditional Release, then what is the term that best denotes the SPECIFIC concept. I believe this is the major problem when it comes to Parole. We have to settle this.

JoseAlejandro Jun 21, 2010:

Part I: A question to start Do you all understand what a CONDITIONAL RELEASE is, and how it is used in court? If we consider our role as interpreters/translators, we should realize that our only, solid domain is language, not the Law. Sadly, because Language is so spiritually and personally bound to us as human beings, we tend to veer away from the academic and the discursive. We need to be more responsible than that. I really do appreciate and respect Sandro's devotion to research, because we need to prompt more discussions like this. Libertad Condicional can be pretty much anything and everything, and we all know that. If we take a raw, literal translation, it just means Conditional Liberty. In or out of the law, in any country, that is a truly generic semantic unit. As professionals, we cannot conform to generics; to embrace a certain plurality, multiplicity or majority within Latin American countries or across the pond to the east, is simply not addressing the issue. We translate CONCEPTS, not mere words. x=y and y=x. What does CONDITIONAL LIBERTY say about anything? Before or after the sentence, or the plea? It's too vague for anything specific, so it only means Conditional Release, which

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Rosa,<br>
You said, "the fact remains that those [libertad condicional / bajo palabra] are the terms used in court - in this part of the world." What about other parts of the world where terms such as gavilanes (for "sentence guidelines") and arraigo (for "arraignment") are used in court. Are those terms correct just because they are used in those parts of the world?

Sandro Tomasi Jun 21, 2010:

Rosa,<br>
Have you read the article on translating "probation" into Spanish? It goes over some of the reasons of why probación may be used in a translation, citing monolingual dictionaries and legal treatises written in Spanish. <br>The other thing I said in my answer is that I now endorse a probation-condena condicional translation as well -- this one being the most solid choice, specifically if it is known that a sentence of "probation" (as it is in most cases) is properly tranlsated as condena condicional (propiamente dicha) and that "probation" as a suspended sentence is properly tranlsated as condena condicional in the traditional fashion and condena de ejecución condicional taking into account the misnomer in Spanish.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

Debunking the Fallacies I've already provided these links in this forum, but I reiterate them because they really help people understand the fallacies with regard to the translation of "probation" and "parole" that have been perpetuated by bilinguals as well as professional interpreters and translators -- even English-Spanish legal lexicographers. The buck, however, stops with the monolingual legal lexicographers and the actual laws from the pertinent countries which we can use to compare directly. The following linked documents are based on them.
<br>Parole Statutes in Spain and Latin America
http://www.BilingualLawDictionary.com/parole.pdf
<br>Article on Translating Probation into Spanish
http://www.BilingualLawDictionary.com/Eng-Sp Legal Dictionar...
<br>Reading these resources will help develop an advanced concept of what's at stake when translating probation/parole into Spanish.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

Rosa,
<br>You said, "These (libertad condicional / libertad bajo palabra) are the terms used by concensous by court interpreters innthis part of the world."
<br>I used to form part of that consensus too until I read the Spanish and Latin-American codes. It's like when we all used to believe the world was flat until someone noticed that it was round. The telescope for our terminology research is in the post below (and above) where I provide the parole statutes from the different countries wherein most, overwhelmingly, are in accordance with the term "libertad condicional."

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

Rebecca,
<br>First, we agree on the probation-condena condicional equivalent. (Although it’s more complicated than that. I’ll explain later)
Second, suspensión de la ejecución de la pena is not a sentence, but rather a suspended sentence. Same with condena condicional, which is a misnomer in Spanish; it’s not a conditional sentence, but rather a sentence that has been conditionally suspended. (See added note in my answer post below.)
<br>You cite the law for juveniles that sets forth libertad vigilada in the sense of probation (Art. 7.1.h Ley Orgánica 5/2000), but check Art. 7.2 of the same law which establishes libertad vigilada in the sense of parole. Again, libertad vigilada is a generic term for both.
<br>The funny thing with probación is that it could come from a real novice or a real expert.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

Hypathia, se puede encontrar muchas referencias, como las de ProZ y el penalista norteamericano, que incluyen los términos que estás ofreciendo, incluso hay varios diccionarios jurídico-bilingüe que lo hacen también. Sin embargo, están equivocados. ¿Por qué? Porque los códigos procesales penales de 17 países de habla hispana han tipificado “libertad condicional” con el significado básico de dar la libertad a un prisionero luego de haber purgado la mayor parte de la pena privativa de libertad bajo buena conducta. He ofrecido un link, más abajo en esta sección, de las leyes de libertad condicional de dichos países.

Rebecca Jowers Jun 20, 2010:

Hi Sandro,
As I underscored in my previous comment, I agree “condena condicional” is the expression most often used in Spain for what is formally called in the Código Penal (Arts. 80-87) “suspensión de la ejecución de la pena.” And, of course, in a scholarly article about “probation,” a Spanish law professor could conceivably use the calque “probación.” But the actual criminal sentence provided for in the Código Penal is “suspensión de la ejecución de la pena.” Given these two possible Spanish translations, a translator who renders “probation” as “probación” may be seen as being unfamiliar with the terminology of Spanish law. The same goes for “libertad vigilada.” When a “juez de vigilancia” “decreta libertad,” this may be informally referred to as “libertad vigilada.” But at present the only criminal sentence provided for in Spanish penal legislation actually called “libertad vigilada” is imposed on minors (Art. 7.1.h. Ley Orgánica 5/2000, de 12 de enero, reguladora de la responsabilidad penal de menores). So in a translation for Spain, I believe rendering either “probation” or “parole” as “libertad vigilada” suggests the translator is unaware of these important differences.

Ligia Gonzalez Jun 20, 2010:

Otra aclaración de conceptos En otro enlace lo aclaran muy bien así: "Libertad bajo Palabra y Libertad Condicional en Casos de Conducir Ebrio
La Libertad Bajo Palabra y la Libertad Condicional son mecanismos tipo supervisión que son empleados en la etapa de castigo en el proceso de justicia criminal. La libertad bajo palabra sucede después que la persona ha sido encarcelada y es puesta en libertad. Por otra parte, la libertad condicional se refiere a una sentencia criminal separada y distinta al encarcelamiento. La libertad condicional es el tipo de sentencia más común y típicamente incluye devolver al ofensor a la comunidad pero sujeto a una lista de términos y condiciones. Los términos de la sentencia varían mucho, y están basados en el crimen cometido, las características del ofensor, y los recursos del sistema de libertad condicional. Todas las libertades condicionales están sujetas al requisito de que el ofensor no vuelva a cometer más crímenes." Es interesante visitar el sitio para mayor claridad:http://www.bakersfield-duiattorney.com/CM/FSDP/PracticeCente...

Ligia Gonzalez Jun 20, 2010:

Explicación de Probation y Parole Explicación:
"Probation" es cuando una persona es condenada, e inmediatamente se le conmuta la pena de prisión por "libertad condicional". No va a la cárcel siempre que cumpla con las condiciones que le son impuestas.

"Parole" es cuando a una persona que ya fue condenada y ya paso tiempo en la cárcel se le permite salir antes de que se cumpla el tiempo establecido de condena, siempre y cuando cumpla con ciertas condiciones. Para no confundirla con la anterior podría usarse el término "libnertad bajo palabra".
Lo explica xxx Aguas de Mar colaborador de Kudoz ver enlacehttp://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_spanish/law_general/374...

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

Rebecca,
<br>The term condena condicional is the same for what many codes set forth as suspensión condicional de la pena (or something similar thereto). In other words, they are synonymous.
<br>The term probación is actually used in Spain, as well as other Spanish-speaking countries, but only as a calque in reference to anglo "probation" usually by legal scholars that specialize in comparative law (although most use the more conservative term condena condicional).
<br>The term libertad vigilada is also used generically in Spain. For example, considering that in Spain the Juez de Vigilancia controls a defendant's parole (Artículo 90 del Código Penal de España), the term libertad vigilada is sometimes used generically for libertad condicional. But it can also be used for condena condicional because the Juez de Vigilancia is also in charge of overseeing that as well.

Rebecca Jowers Jun 20, 2010:

If you need the terminology used in Spain: probation = "condena condicional" (formally known as "suspensión de la ejecución de la pena privativa de libertad", but that's a mouthful; parole = "libertad condicional." The word "probación" is not used in Spain. At present the expression "libertad vigilada" denotes a sentence imposed only on minors (not used for adult offenders).

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

Jose, thanks for your wonderful input. Let me use your diagram to fine tune:
<br>Probation: CONDENA CONDICIONAL, LIBERTAD A PRUEBA (Puerto Rico), LIBERTAD VIGILADA (generic).
<br>Parole: LIBERTAD CONDICIONAL, LIBERTAD PREPARATORIA (México), LIBERTAD ANTICIPADA (Uruguay), LIBERTAD BAJO PALABRA (Puerto Rico), LIBERTAD VIGILADA (generic).
<br>"Libertad bajo palabra" means RELEASE ON OWN RECOGNIZANCE. However, in Puerto Rico it means "parole."

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

You may use condena condicional / libertad condicional for Spain as well as the majority of Spanish-speaking countries.

Sandro Tomasi Jun 20, 2010:

Statutes showing libertad condicional = parole http://www.BilingualLawDictionary.com/parole.pdf

Jeanie Eldon (asker) Jun 20, 2010:

Paul Garcia is right. I am really looking for terms that apply to Europe (UK and Spain).

Paul García Jun 20, 2010:

what country, Jeannie? "Correct" translations for what country, Jeannie? As you may notice, there is some variation, and difference of opinion...

JoseAlejandro Jun 20, 2010:

Let's clarify, once and for all: Probation has only two acceptable translations: CONDENA CONDICIONAL or LIBERTAD A PRUEBA.

Parole: LIBERTAD PREPARATORIA or LIBERTAD VIGILADA

"Libertad Condicional" means CONDITIONAL RELEASE, not Probation

"Libertad bajo palabra" means O/R RELEASE, which has nothing to do with Probation or Parole.

I don't understand why Spanish Interpreters and Translators around the world can't agree on these terms. It's not that difficult to understand, yet the concepts are specific enough to deserve a true, accurate translation. I just spelled those out. This is Court Interpreting 101.

It's important to do research based on the LAW. It's not enough to pop open a dictionary or glossary. We should be more responsible than that.