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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Titulaire du diplôme de Licence de Pharmacien

English translation:

Holder of a Bachelor of Pharmacy degree / Bachelor\'s degree in Pharmacy

Added to glossary by Clara Gomez and Marcelo Bellizzi
May 20, 2019 11:19
5 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

Titulaire du diplôme de Licence de Pharmacien

French to English Other Education / Pedagogy in a Certificate of Studies
Is this term the same as

Having a degree of Bachelor of Pharmacy?
Proposed translations (English)
5 +1 Holder of a Bachelor of Pharmacy degree / Bachelor's degree in Pharmacy
3 +1 Graduate
3 +1 holder of a licence to practise as a pharmacist

Discussion

Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
@Nikki I entirely agree with what you say at the end. "Diplôme" does sit uneasily with "licence de pharmacien". Perhaps abe(L)solano is right and the text is garbled. At any rate, as you say I think this must refer to a licence, an authorisation to work as a pharmacist; I just don't believe someone in France would use this term to refer to a pharmacy degree.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 21, 2019:
@Charles The discussion section IS the best palce for a discussion!
Yes, this made me think of a friend, now retired, who had a pharmacy in the village I lived in in Brittany for years or so. She was the qualified pharmacist with the "licence". Her husband had done the same type of course of study but had not qualified. He could not hold the "licence".
I agree there are anomalies:
- "licence DE pharmacIEN" suggests some sort of authorisation for a professional activity
- "diplôme de licence" is inconsistent with that.
Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
@Nikki Further to my comment on your answer, the requirements to practise as a pharmacist in France (acc. to Code de la Santé Publique) are:

1. Qualification ("diplôme, certificat ou autre titre")
2. Nationality (French, Andorran, EU or other country with which France has reciprocal arrangement)
3. Membership of professional association: "Être inscrit à l'ordre des pharmaciens."

Could no. 3 be described as a "diplôme de licence de pharmacien"? Seems odd to me, and I haven't found it called that anywhere else. I suppose they probably give you some kind of certificate when you register, but...

There is also the licence to run a pharmacy ("exploitation d'une officine"), which is called "licence" in French, but that's not actually a licence to practise, and you can work as a pharmacist without having one (in somebody else's pharmacy).

If we could be sure that this is not a degree and that it refers to a licence obtained in one of the many other countries that do have a formal "licence to practise" for pharmacists, all the difficulties would melt away, but on the information we have there are anomalies here.
Louise TAYLOR May 21, 2019:
Thank you Charles ;)
Robert Miki May 21, 2019:
Like Charles rightly pointed out, I also saw "licence de pharmacien" meaning "pharmacist's licence" but the domain is Customs and Excise (par. 136(5), Excise Act / Loi sur l'accise), referring to a business licence; not necessarily a diploma or degree which is expressly the case here.
cf.
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-eng.html?la...

Is it impossible for the holder of a Bachelor or Master or Doctor in Pharmacy to open a Pharmacy business?
Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
In fairness to Louise I should add that she drew attention to the odd inconsistency of this expression right at the beginning (though whether "graduate" is appropriate here is a moot point).
Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
@Abel Those are some of the uncertainties in my mind too, which is why I haven't posted an answer; I really don't know what to suggest. Perhaps the rest of the asker's ttext offers further clues, but as it stands I would ask the client for clarification.
abe(L)solano May 21, 2019:
Just one idea, it might be silly but what about if the original text was something of the sort: "Titulaire du dîplome ET license de Pharmacien" (stating that this person holds both??). I thought this was from Canada or elsewhere hence my first comment here, but yes, in France the degree/diploma is a "docteur" and Charles has extensively ellaborated on this. Another thought: And what about if the person didn´t do her studies in France (not originally a "docteur"), and the translation is intended for some kind of homologation? Just the asker knows.
Ph_B (X) May 21, 2019:
Charles, I'm sure that was not your intention, but your refs. convinced me that my answer (for the record: "holds/has been awarded a degree in pharmacy") was not reliable enough considering the odd source text. I'm against deleting answers or comments (or modifying comments without saying so) if that changes the flow/meaning of the discussion, but that wasn't the case here. And I avoid contributing more rubbish to the Net if I possibly can!
Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
@Ph_B That wasn't my intention! And I don't think you should delete your answer. For all I know it does refer to a degree in pharmacy. I was just expressing my own confusion and urging the asker to be careful.
Ph_B (X) May 21, 2019:
"licence de pharmacien" (?) I agree with Charles and his posts lead me to delete my answer. I’ll just copy here the bit about titulaire, which I think may still apply in this case : I've seen titulaire translated as '"holds/has been awarded a [degree?] in...".
Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
(3) The expression “licence de pharmacien” is unusual in France anyway. When it is used it nearly always refers to a professional licence obtained in another country. Sometimes it refers to the French licence to run a pharmacy, which is personal and can be withdrawn for malpractice:

“L’exploitation d'une officine nécessite l'octroi d'une licence délivrée par décision du directeur général de l’agence régionale de santé (ARS) après avis du Conseil régional de l'Ordre des pharmaciens (ou du Conseil central E, outre-mer) et des syndicats représentatifs des pharmaciens titulaires. La licence fixe le lieu où est exploitée l’officine, elle ne peut être cédée indépendamment de celle-ci.”
http://www.ordre.pharmacien.fr/Le-pharmacien/Secteurs-d-acti...

Is that what this is referring to? It seems doubtful, I think; would this be described as a “diplôme”?

If if refers to a “licence” obtained in another country, then it’s a pharmacist’s licence, a professional licence to practise pharmacy. If it’s definitely French, it’s difficult to say what it means.
Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
(2) The Code de la Santé Publique, Art. L4221-1, says:
“Nul ne peut exercer la profession de pharmacien […] s'il ne réunit les conditions suivantes :
1° Etre titulaire d'un diplôme, certificat ou autre titre mentionnés aux articles L. 4221-2 à L. 4221-5 […]”
and Art. L4221-2 says:
“Sous réserve des dispositions des articles L. 4221-4 et L. 4221-5, les diplômes, certificats ou autres titres mentionnés au 1° de l'article L. 4221-1 sont le diplôme français d'Etat de docteur en pharmacie ou de pharmacien.”
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do;jsession...

(continued in next post)
Charles Davis May 21, 2019:
OK, but... (1) Is it certain, from your document, that (a) this refers to a degree and (b) this "diplôme de licence de pharmacien", whatever it is, was obtained in France?

I ask because if the answer to both is "yes", this is a puzzling expression. I find it difficult to believe it means a degree in pharmacy equivalent to a bachelor's degree. To become a pharmacist in France you need the "DE (diplóme d'État) de docteur en pharmacie", which means 6 to 9 years of university study, depending on the branch of pharmacy you want to practise. The first three-year cycle is the Diplôme de formation générale en sciences pharmaceutiques (DFGSP). This is "niveau licence" (Bac+3) and entitles you to work as a "préparateur en pharmacie en officine". But although in principle you might conceivably call it a “Licence en Pharmacie”, since it is equivalent to that, I think it would be very strange for a French person to refer to it as a "diplôme de Licence de Pharmacien"; almost invariably it's just the first step on the path to becoming a pharmacist.

(continued in next post)
Clara Gomez and Marcelo Bellizzi (asker) May 20, 2019:
It's from France. Yes it is for a Letter of Good Professional Standard, where the name of the person is listed first, then the degree that she obtained....

Titulaire du diplôme de Licence de Pharmacien
Charles Davis May 20, 2019:
I'm not so sure Where is this from? Is it Canada? If so, note the following:

"C.P.L.M. c. P60
Loi sur les pharmacies
PARTIE 1
DÉFINITIONS ET INTERPRÉTATION
[...]
« licence de pharmacien » Licence, peu importe sa catégorie, délivrée à un pharmacien et l'autorisant à exercer sa profession. ("pharmacist licence")"
https://www.canlii.org/fr/mb/legis/lois/cplm-c-p60/derniere/...

"Licence de Pharmacien" is an odd way to refer to a degree in pharmacy, isn't it? You would normally call it a Licence en Pharmacie.
abe(L)solano May 20, 2019:
Yes, I do think it's just an elaborate form to say Bachelor in Pharmacy.

Proposed translations

+1
3 hrs
Selected

Holder of a Bachelor of Pharmacy degree / Bachelor's degree in Pharmacy

Peer comment(s):
agree Julie Barber
19 hrs
Thank you
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you. For a Pharmacy degree in France, this is the perfect translation. Thank you!!!"
+1
1 hr

Graduate

Titulaire du diplôme is the same as graduate for most instances - a graduate in pharmacy. Licence de Pharmacien is a licensed pharmacist.
For me these are two separate things one is a diploma and the other is a licence. I have not heard of a diploma in 'licensed pharmacy'.
Hopefully someone else will have :)
Peer comment(s):
agree Eliza Hall : Agree with translation, but FYI re your comment, a licence is a bachelor's degree (undergraduate university degree). They're not two separate things; the diplôme is the licence.
1 hr
Thank you. It is odd to see the two in the same sentence.
neutral B D Finch : The licence is the degree, but by way of belt and braces they specify the need to have the certificate "diplôme" to prove it.
2 hrs
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : See my post.
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
23 hrs

holder of a licence to practise as a pharmacist

If the intention of the source text were to describe a three-year undergraduate degree ("bachelor's degree"), then you would expect to see a "licence EN pharmacIE". That would mean an (undergraduate) degree in the discipline of pharmacy. That is not what we have here. Based on the scant information posted, there is nevertheless a strong chance that the extract posted intends to describe a professional licence to practice, rather than the academic discipline. The source text posted uses "licence DE pharmacIEN": there seems little room for doubt that this is describing a person as holding a pharmacist's practising licence. It is describing the profession, not the academic discipline.

Another fairly straightforward clue is that you need more than an undergraduate degree in order to qualify to practise as a pharmacist.

More context would be required, hence the medium confidence level.
Do we have more to go on?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2019-05-21 13:45:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Adjusting my suggestion to take account of posts in the dicsussion section, allow me to rephrase my suggestion. Rather than to "practise" as a pharmacist, then effectively, this could well be describing the situation of an industrial pharmacist. I once temped for Henri Schein a firm that kits out dental surgeries. A pharmacist always had to be on site if anyone was to access pharmaceuticals of any kind, kept under lock and key (the pharmaceuticals, not the pharmacists)! Employee access was conditional upon having undertaken specific training.

We need further and specific context, but I maintain this is almost certainly a professional authorisation/permit thingy and not an udnergraduate degree.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2019-05-21 13:46:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Holder of a pharmacist's licence".
Subject to further context, general and specific.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2019-05-21 13:56:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I have a friend who is a retired pharmacist. There IS such a thing as a licence, by the way, a bit like a licence to have a bar. Not suggesting there is a link!

http://www.ordre.pharmacien.fr/Le-pharmacien/Secteurs-d-acti...

"L’exploitation d'une officine nécessite l'octroi d'une licence délivrée par décision du directeur général de l’agence régionale de santé (ARS) après avis du Conseil régional de l'Ordre des pharmaciens (ou du Conseil central E, outre-mer) et des syndicats représentatifs des pharmaciens titulaires. La licence fixe le lieu où est exploitée l’officine, elle ne peut être cédée indépendamment de celle-ci."


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2019-05-21 13:59:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thus, the "licence" confers (individual) authorisation to have a pharmacy and in a specific location. The idea is that the whole territory is covered, there being a notion of public service and to avoid having half a dozen pharmacies lined up in a row.
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : I agree with your reasoning and have made the same points in the disc. area, but we're told this is from France, where AKAIK there is no such thing as a licence to practise as a pharmacist. There is a licence to run a pharmacy // Changing to agree :-)
1 hr
Indeeed. Thank you, I should have looked!
Something went wrong...
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