Aug 16, 2016 18:26
7 yrs ago
8 viewers *
French term

les actifs

French to English Other Tourism & Travel tourism
In the context of an article analysing what puts people off visiting the Champs-Elysees, does 'les actifs' here mean something rather more dubious that 'people working on'?

Actifs travaillant sur l’avenue et escort girls

(This is from a list)

Sorry but I need an answer within 12 hours....

Discussion

Tony M Aug 17, 2016:
@ Patrick Nous, c'est plutôt au Bois de Boulogne qu'il faut aller nous chercher ;-)
patrickfor Aug 17, 2016:
Les actifs désigne généralement les gens qui travaillent
donc "actifs travaillant sur l'avenue" est une forme bizarre parce que les actifs travaillent forcément,pléonasme donc et un peu lourd une forme naturelle serait "les gens qui travaillent sur l'avenue"
mais
le plus bizarre
quand même
... c'est de les associer aux escort girls... ¨
Pour quelle raison associer dans le même groupe des employés et des prostituées ?
Avec un peu de réluctance, mais à cause du contexte, je chercherais quand même du côté des homosexuels...
Julia Burgess Aug 17, 2016:
@ Tony I'll settle for editing my original entry, thanks anyway. Perhaps this idea will be useful to someone else another time...
Tony M Aug 17, 2016:
@ Julia If you wish to delete your original post, I'll happily delete my reply ;-)
Julia Burgess Aug 17, 2016:
@ Tony Yes, I officially withdraw my suggestion :) Once the asker let us know that the author was making contrasts, I quickly backed away from my idea! And if my understand of the actif/passif roles is correct, I imagine you are quite right that anyone 'working' in that context is more likely to be passif. I wish the whole idea hadn't occurred to me now!
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Aug 17, 2016:
Ordinary meaning TO me, it's just the ordinary meaning of "actifs". It seems that the idea is to point to the variety of people who work there. "Travailleurs" would have been open to ambiguity. The choice of the neutral and INSEE-ish official term puts paid to that, I would have thought. And, if the whole point is to play on ambiguity, then it is in respsecting that very aspect of the FR that the EN version too will be authentic.
Tony M Aug 16, 2016:
@ Julia although the terms 'actif' and 'passif' are indeed used in gay slang, I think it highly unlikely that would apply here; for one thing, any male prostitutes would be unlikely to display their role préferences quite so visibly — and in any case, are statistically more likely to be 'passif' anyway ;-)

Beides, this idea would put a whole new — and I'm sure unwanted — connotation on the text, somehow seeming to imply that the writer wouldn't have minded their being rent boys, just so long as they were passive ones...!!!
David Hollywood Aug 16, 2016:
could be "street walkers" so we really need someone with CE smarts here
David Hollywood Aug 16, 2016:
but might be going too far on the interpretation of "actif"
David Hollywood Aug 16, 2016:
maybe "street vendors" as the CE is full of them and might be offputting to some tourists
Julia Burgess Aug 16, 2016:
Could just be straightforward... ... and refer to people working there, as you have suggested, Janis, especially if your list has other contrasts. My suggestion may be overcomplicating matters & is not a topic I can speak with any authority on!
janisct (asker) Aug 16, 2016:
That#s very interesting Julia! I think I'm going to have to tread with extreme caution here...
Julia Burgess Aug 16, 2016:
Try gay slang? // Please ignore! Is the CE known as a gay pick-up spot after dark? I think I've seen somewhere that passifs & actifs are gay terms. But I could be totally wrong...! Wouldn't (female) prostitutes need a feminine ending (I.e. actives)? // Since decided this is unsuited to the wider context :)
janisct (asker) Aug 16, 2016:
I have now changed my mind and have translated it as 'honest workers' because I think the author is contrasting the two lifestyles. The previous sentence mentioned tourists and young people from disadvantaged areas.
polyglot45 Aug 16, 2016:
is there no other word before "actifs"? The Champs-Elysées is full of lots of things but not notoriously streetwalkers. More like pickpockets or beggars, from my experience
janisct (asker) Aug 16, 2016:
P.S. I should mention that so far I have translated this as 'street walkers' but I might be doing someone a great disservice....

Proposed translations

+4
3 hrs
French term (edited): les actifs; les actifs travaillant sur l'avenue
Selected

working people; people who work on the Avenue

"Les actifs" is being used in one of its standard meanings here, to mean "working people". The source text probably uses this term to avoid saying "les gens qui travaillent sur l'avenue". "Les gens"is a bit weak to start a sentence. "Les actifs" is a little more dynamic.

However, in English, if you try to translate "les actifs" and then the verb "travaillant sur", you'll have "work" twice, so that's no good. Just roll both into one use of the verb "to work":
- people who work on the Avenue
- people working on the Aveneue.

Note also that in English, you need to capitalize "Avenue" here. It is referring to "l'avenue des C.E." but the French does not capitalize "avenue/rue" etc. In fact, people also simply refer to "les Champs" to mean the Champs Elysées. But that's just by the by. This Wikipedia page gives some of that info. It also shows the street name sign, with a capital for "Avenue" but you will see in the body of the text on that page that "avenue" is not capitalised in French, which is why it has not been capitalised in the text you have.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenue_des_Champs-Élysées

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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-08-16 22:28:28 GMT)
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http://www.linternaute.com/dictionnaire/fr/definition/actif/

Sens 2 Personne qui occupe un emploi.
Synonyme : travailleur


https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/actif

Nom commun 2[modifier]
Singulier Pluriel
Masculin actif
\ak.tif\ actifs
\ak.tif\
Féminin active
\ak.tiv\ actives
\ak.tiv\
actif \ak.tif\ masculin

(Économie) Personne en âge de travailler, qu’elle ait ou recherche un emploi.
Un actif est membre de la population active.


http://gdlyon.pagesperso-orange.fr/valeursvacancesprecarite....

1. CONSTATS
1.1. Inégalités d’accès aux vacances en France
La presse en parle chaque année au mois d’août. Il y a une inégalité dans l’accès aux vacances en France.
En 1996, 40 % des Français ne partent pas en vacances. 17 % pour des raisons financières, soit un peu
plus qu’en 1991. 29 % de ces personnes ont des revenus inférieurs à 6000 F mensuel. Ce sont surtout des
ouvriers, des employés parmi les actifs qu’ils aient ou non un emploi, c’est à dire qu’ils soient en recherche
d’emploi ou qu’ils aient un travail, et des retraités (source : Conseil national du Tourisme).


http://www.ladocumentationfrancaise.fr/var/storage/rapports-...

I - L’EMPLOI DANS LE TOURISME
Les activités caractéristiques du tourisme emploient plus d’un million de personnes soit 4% des actifs occupés, mais il est courant de rappeler que ce nombre peut être doublé si on tient compte des emplois indirects et des emplois induits par le tourisme.


La durée des vacances
- Les séjours sont en moyenne de 2 à 3 semaines,
- 35% des Français choisissent des vacances durant un mois ou plus,
- Les personnes préférant des vacances longues entre 3 semaines et plus d’un mois : les jeunes, les
inactifs et les habitants de l’agglomération parisienne,
- Les personnes préférant des vacances plus courtes : les personnes âgées, les actifs, et les habitants
de communes rurales.


Note that you can sometimes find the term "actif(s)" used in the same text to describe "assets". Also, the term in a more technicla sense - cf. INSEE, includes thoses who are employable (in terms of age and so on). In the INSEE definition, an "actif" is also someone who is unemployed, available and able to work. The INSEE definition is the widest and is used regularly in the press. It's a term any baccalauréat student knows, particularly if they have done the bac ES.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-08-16 22:32:20 GMT)
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Oh yes, and.... ahem... to answer the question, I think that all the blurb I've posted here still applies, as whether there is a nudge-nudge-wink-wink overtone or not, I think you can keep the same neutral register in the English. That way the English version will have the same potential to raise doubts or eyebrows, whatever!
Peer comment(s):

agree Sheila Wilson : people who work there - leave the rest to the reader
1 hr
agree Philippa Smith : Definitely. As the asker says in the discussion, in contrast to 'escort girls' and echoing the previous contrast; the sentence is clearly trying to show the mix of people on the CE.
7 hrs
agree Julia Burgess : Most likely option
14 hrs
neutral B D Finch : This reminds me of my mother telling one of her friends that I was a "working girl" and her shocked disbelief when I told her what that meant.
23 hrs
agree AllegroTrans : "people who work the avenue" may convey this in a sharper manner
23 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to all those who offered suggestions, but in the end I have come to the conclusion that the obvious answer is the correct one. The ordinary worker is being contrasted with the more 'unsavoury' workers. Some interesting ideas certainly cropped up though!"
2 hrs

street / pavement traders

Although I have no proofs to back it up, my gut feeling is this is referring to various kinds of street vendors, whose insistent pestering can be most unwelcome if you are just out for a quiet stroll.

'actif' in the sense of 'there to do business' (i.e. not any special kind of business).
Peer comment(s):

neutral polyglot45 : never seen any of those on the CE, Tony ! The cops would move them on very fast
10 hrs
Thanks, P/G! I really can't imagine what other connotation one can put on it; 'people in gainful employment working along the CE' seems unlikely! According to BDF's ref and Jane (below), who does work there, they do in fact exist on the CE.
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2 hrs

regulars

I don't think there is any gay/lesbian connotation, but it's been a while since I went cruising on the Champs Easy-Lay (to repeat a BBC radio show joke of yesteryear).

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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-08-16 21:12:17 GMT)
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BTW, regulars I use in the sense of the 'usual culprits' - positive or negative, plus or minus charge.
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+2
16 hrs

hustlers

www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/hustlerEnglish (UK). All, British & World English, US ... 1A person adept at aggressive selling or illicit dealing: small-time hustlers trying to sell their stuff. More example ...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/passport-warning-brit-tourists-abr... days ago - The Foreign Office has warned holidaymakers about the techniques used by hustlers to steal passports after more than 21000 British tourists ...

Remove underscore to use this link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk___/news/worldnews/europe/france/1...
"I have a home in France and visit Paris about once a year. This last summer I also took friends to the Champs (tourists always want to go) but was assailed from end to end by beggars and hustlers. "
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : That's the sort of word I was thinking of... though these days, it does tend to have a more sexual connotation... / I guess I just move in all the wrong circles ;-)
4 hrs
Thanks Tony. It's had a sexual connotation for a very long time; however, it has also retained the meaning of aggressive and illicit selling of things other than sex..
agree AllegroTrans
6 hrs
Thanks AT
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19 hrs

scammers

Lots of these on the CE!
I know, I work near there.

Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : Whilst I agree that the general idea is to rip people off, I think 'scam' is perhaps a bit too narrow, as it refers to one particular kind of rip-off... / Better, tho' similar risk; '...artist' poss. too colloquial?
43 mins
Perhaps 'con artist' would be better in that case.
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