Aug 16, 2016 18:26
7 yrs ago
8 viewers *
French term
les actifs
French to English
Other
Tourism & Travel
tourism
In the context of an article analysing what puts people off visiting the Champs-Elysees, does 'les actifs' here mean something rather more dubious that 'people working on'?
Actifs travaillant sur l’avenue et escort girls
(This is from a list)
Sorry but I need an answer within 12 hours....
Actifs travaillant sur l’avenue et escort girls
(This is from a list)
Sorry but I need an answer within 12 hours....
Proposed translations
(English)
5 +4 | working people; people who work on the Avenue | Nikki Scott-Despaigne |
3 +2 | hustlers | B D Finch |
3 | regulars | Adrian MM. (X) |
3 | scammers | Jane F |
1 | street / pavement traders | Tony M |
Proposed translations
+4
3 hrs
French term (edited):
les actifs; les actifs travaillant sur l'avenue
Selected
working people; people who work on the Avenue
"Les actifs" is being used in one of its standard meanings here, to mean "working people". The source text probably uses this term to avoid saying "les gens qui travaillent sur l'avenue". "Les gens"is a bit weak to start a sentence. "Les actifs" is a little more dynamic.
However, in English, if you try to translate "les actifs" and then the verb "travaillant sur", you'll have "work" twice, so that's no good. Just roll both into one use of the verb "to work":
- people who work on the Avenue
- people working on the Aveneue.
Note also that in English, you need to capitalize "Avenue" here. It is referring to "l'avenue des C.E." but the French does not capitalize "avenue/rue" etc. In fact, people also simply refer to "les Champs" to mean the Champs Elysées. But that's just by the by. This Wikipedia page gives some of that info. It also shows the street name sign, with a capital for "Avenue" but you will see in the body of the text on that page that "avenue" is not capitalised in French, which is why it has not been capitalised in the text you have.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenue_des_Champs-Élysées
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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-08-16 22:28:28 GMT)
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http://www.linternaute.com/dictionnaire/fr/definition/actif/
Sens 2 Personne qui occupe un emploi.
Synonyme : travailleur
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/actif
Nom commun 2[modifier]
Singulier Pluriel
Masculin actif
\ak.tif\ actifs
\ak.tif\
Féminin active
\ak.tiv\ actives
\ak.tiv\
actif \ak.tif\ masculin
(Économie) Personne en âge de travailler, qu’elle ait ou recherche un emploi.
Un actif est membre de la population active.
http://gdlyon.pagesperso-orange.fr/valeursvacancesprecarite....
1. CONSTATS
1.1. Inégalités d’accès aux vacances en France
La presse en parle chaque année au mois d’août. Il y a une inégalité dans l’accès aux vacances en France.
En 1996, 40 % des Français ne partent pas en vacances. 17 % pour des raisons financières, soit un peu
plus qu’en 1991. 29 % de ces personnes ont des revenus inférieurs à 6000 F mensuel. Ce sont surtout des
ouvriers, des employés parmi les actifs qu’ils aient ou non un emploi, c’est à dire qu’ils soient en recherche
d’emploi ou qu’ils aient un travail, et des retraités (source : Conseil national du Tourisme).
http://www.ladocumentationfrancaise.fr/var/storage/rapports-...
I - L’EMPLOI DANS LE TOURISME
Les activités caractéristiques du tourisme emploient plus d’un million de personnes soit 4% des actifs occupés, mais il est courant de rappeler que ce nombre peut être doublé si on tient compte des emplois indirects et des emplois induits par le tourisme.
La durée des vacances
- Les séjours sont en moyenne de 2 à 3 semaines,
- 35% des Français choisissent des vacances durant un mois ou plus,
- Les personnes préférant des vacances longues entre 3 semaines et plus d’un mois : les jeunes, les
inactifs et les habitants de l’agglomération parisienne,
- Les personnes préférant des vacances plus courtes : les personnes âgées, les actifs, et les habitants
de communes rurales.
Note that you can sometimes find the term "actif(s)" used in the same text to describe "assets". Also, the term in a more technicla sense - cf. INSEE, includes thoses who are employable (in terms of age and so on). In the INSEE definition, an "actif" is also someone who is unemployed, available and able to work. The INSEE definition is the widest and is used regularly in the press. It's a term any baccalauréat student knows, particularly if they have done the bac ES.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2016-08-16 22:32:20 GMT)
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Oh yes, and.... ahem... to answer the question, I think that all the blurb I've posted here still applies, as whether there is a nudge-nudge-wink-wink overtone or not, I think you can keep the same neutral register in the English. That way the English version will have the same potential to raise doubts or eyebrows, whatever!
However, in English, if you try to translate "les actifs" and then the verb "travaillant sur", you'll have "work" twice, so that's no good. Just roll both into one use of the verb "to work":
- people who work on the Avenue
- people working on the Aveneue.
Note also that in English, you need to capitalize "Avenue" here. It is referring to "l'avenue des C.E." but the French does not capitalize "avenue/rue" etc. In fact, people also simply refer to "les Champs" to mean the Champs Elysées. But that's just by the by. This Wikipedia page gives some of that info. It also shows the street name sign, with a capital for "Avenue" but you will see in the body of the text on that page that "avenue" is not capitalised in French, which is why it has not been capitalised in the text you have.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenue_des_Champs-Élysées
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2016-08-16 22:28:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.linternaute.com/dictionnaire/fr/definition/actif/
Sens 2 Personne qui occupe un emploi.
Synonyme : travailleur
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/actif
Nom commun 2[modifier]
Singulier Pluriel
Masculin actif
\ak.tif\ actifs
\ak.tif\
Féminin active
\ak.tiv\ actives
\ak.tiv\
actif \ak.tif\ masculin
(Économie) Personne en âge de travailler, qu’elle ait ou recherche un emploi.
Un actif est membre de la population active.
http://gdlyon.pagesperso-orange.fr/valeursvacancesprecarite....
1. CONSTATS
1.1. Inégalités d’accès aux vacances en France
La presse en parle chaque année au mois d’août. Il y a une inégalité dans l’accès aux vacances en France.
En 1996, 40 % des Français ne partent pas en vacances. 17 % pour des raisons financières, soit un peu
plus qu’en 1991. 29 % de ces personnes ont des revenus inférieurs à 6000 F mensuel. Ce sont surtout des
ouvriers, des employés parmi les actifs qu’ils aient ou non un emploi, c’est à dire qu’ils soient en recherche
d’emploi ou qu’ils aient un travail, et des retraités (source : Conseil national du Tourisme).
http://www.ladocumentationfrancaise.fr/var/storage/rapports-...
I - L’EMPLOI DANS LE TOURISME
Les activités caractéristiques du tourisme emploient plus d’un million de personnes soit 4% des actifs occupés, mais il est courant de rappeler que ce nombre peut être doublé si on tient compte des emplois indirects et des emplois induits par le tourisme.
La durée des vacances
- Les séjours sont en moyenne de 2 à 3 semaines,
- 35% des Français choisissent des vacances durant un mois ou plus,
- Les personnes préférant des vacances longues entre 3 semaines et plus d’un mois : les jeunes, les
inactifs et les habitants de l’agglomération parisienne,
- Les personnes préférant des vacances plus courtes : les personnes âgées, les actifs, et les habitants
de communes rurales.
Note that you can sometimes find the term "actif(s)" used in the same text to describe "assets". Also, the term in a more technicla sense - cf. INSEE, includes thoses who are employable (in terms of age and so on). In the INSEE definition, an "actif" is also someone who is unemployed, available and able to work. The INSEE definition is the widest and is used regularly in the press. It's a term any baccalauréat student knows, particularly if they have done the bac ES.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2016-08-16 22:32:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Oh yes, and.... ahem... to answer the question, I think that all the blurb I've posted here still applies, as whether there is a nudge-nudge-wink-wink overtone or not, I think you can keep the same neutral register in the English. That way the English version will have the same potential to raise doubts or eyebrows, whatever!
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Sheila Wilson
: people who work there - leave the rest to the reader
1 hr
|
agree |
Philippa Smith
: Definitely. As the asker says in the discussion, in contrast to 'escort girls' and echoing the previous contrast; the sentence is clearly trying to show the mix of people on the CE.
7 hrs
|
agree |
Julia Burgess
: Most likely option
14 hrs
|
neutral |
B D Finch
: This reminds me of my mother telling one of her friends that I was a "working girl" and her shocked disbelief when I told her what that meant.
23 hrs
|
agree |
AllegroTrans
: "people who work the avenue" may convey this in a sharper manner
23 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks to all those who offered suggestions, but in the end I have come to the conclusion that the obvious answer is the correct one. The ordinary worker is being contrasted with the more 'unsavoury' workers. Some interesting ideas certainly cropped up though!"
2 hrs
street / pavement traders
Although I have no proofs to back it up, my gut feeling is this is referring to various kinds of street vendors, whose insistent pestering can be most unwelcome if you are just out for a quiet stroll.
'actif' in the sense of 'there to do business' (i.e. not any special kind of business).
'actif' in the sense of 'there to do business' (i.e. not any special kind of business).
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
polyglot45
: never seen any of those on the CE, Tony ! The cops would move them on very fast
10 hrs
|
Thanks, P/G! I really can't imagine what other connotation one can put on it; 'people in gainful employment working along the CE' seems unlikely! According to BDF's ref and Jane (below), who does work there, they do in fact exist on the CE.
|
2 hrs
regulars
I don't think there is any gay/lesbian connotation, but it's been a while since I went cruising on the Champs Easy-Lay (to repeat a BBC radio show joke of yesteryear).
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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-08-16 21:12:17 GMT)
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BTW, regulars I use in the sense of the 'usual culprits' - positive or negative, plus or minus charge.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2016-08-16 21:12:17 GMT)
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BTW, regulars I use in the sense of the 'usual culprits' - positive or negative, plus or minus charge.
+2
16 hrs
hustlers
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/hustlerEnglish (UK). All, British & World English, US ... 1A person adept at aggressive selling or illicit dealing: small-time hustlers trying to sell their stuff. More example ...
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/passport-warning-brit-tourists-abr... days ago - The Foreign Office has warned holidaymakers about the techniques used by hustlers to steal passports after more than 21000 British tourists ...
Remove underscore to use this link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk___/news/worldnews/europe/france/1...
"I have a home in France and visit Paris about once a year. This last summer I also took friends to the Champs (tourists always want to go) but was assailed from end to end by beggars and hustlers. "
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/passport-warning-brit-tourists-abr... days ago - The Foreign Office has warned holidaymakers about the techniques used by hustlers to steal passports after more than 21000 British tourists ...
Remove underscore to use this link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk___/news/worldnews/europe/france/1...
"I have a home in France and visit Paris about once a year. This last summer I also took friends to the Champs (tourists always want to go) but was assailed from end to end by beggars and hustlers. "
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: That's the sort of word I was thinking of... though these days, it does tend to have a more sexual connotation... / I guess I just move in all the wrong circles ;-)
4 hrs
|
Thanks Tony. It's had a sexual connotation for a very long time; however, it has also retained the meaning of aggressive and illicit selling of things other than sex..
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agree |
AllegroTrans
6 hrs
|
Thanks AT
|
19 hrs
scammers
Lots of these on the CE!
I know, I work near there.
I know, I work near there.
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: Whilst I agree that the general idea is to rip people off, I think 'scam' is perhaps a bit too narrow, as it refers to one particular kind of rip-off... / Better, tho' similar risk; '...artist' poss. too colloquial?
43 mins
|
Perhaps 'con artist' would be better in that case.
|
Discussion
donc "actifs travaillant sur l'avenue" est une forme bizarre parce que les actifs travaillent forcément,pléonasme donc et un peu lourd une forme naturelle serait "les gens qui travaillent sur l'avenue"
mais
le plus bizarre
quand même
... c'est de les associer aux escort girls... ¨
Pour quelle raison associer dans le même groupe des employés et des prostituées ?
Avec un peu de réluctance, mais à cause du contexte, je chercherais quand même du côté des homosexuels...
Beides, this idea would put a whole new — and I'm sure unwanted — connotation on the text, somehow seeming to imply that the writer wouldn't have minded their being rent boys, just so long as they were passive ones...!!!