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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Doctor en Derecho y Ciencias Sociales

English translation:

Doctor of Law and Social Sciences

Added to glossary by Marcelo González
Dec 3, 2015 12:34
8 yrs ago
51 viewers *
Spanish term

\"Doctor en Derecho y Ciencias Sociales\"

Spanish to English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy
Es el título que se obtiene al terminar la carrera de Derecho en la Facultad (Uruguay). Veo que se ha traducido mucho como Doctor of Law and Social Sciences, pero me queda la duda si usar la palabra Doctor no confunde con un PhD.
¿Cuál sería el equivalente en EEUU?

Agradezco sus aportes!
Proposed translations (English)
4 Doctor of Law and Social Sciences
4 [Give Spanish title] (Professional doctorate in Law and Social Sciences)
Change log

Dec 7, 2015 13:26: Marcelo González Created KOG entry

Discussion

Marcelo González Dec 7, 2015:
@Elizabeth I agree with your comments: let the people judging for the scholarship determine the degree's value 'based on the details of the courses taken.' After all, that's their job. :)
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
@Elizabeth Fine, but I recommend that you make sure the nature of the degree is made clear in some way. If you provide nothing but a literal translation, then unless those receiving the translation have access to the course contents they will certainly assume it is a PhD. That, of course, would be in the interests of the person involved, since it would be a higher and more prestigious qualification than he/she actually possesses, so in a sense it would be in the interests of that person to keep quiet.
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
Good idea I don't think prolonging this will produce anything fruitful. Cheers :)
Marcelo González Dec 7, 2015:
Though I could respond, Charles, ...point by point, something tells me you could as well, and I am not so sure we would be able to convince each other any time soon. I stand behind my comments and suggestion. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this one, Charles. Cheers from the Marianas :)
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
Yes, it is It's a degree by research, in which the research activity is supplemented and supported by a preparatory teaching programme geared towards training the student to conduct the research. The same is true in many other places. Why does a "degree by research" have to mean a degree for which the sole requirement is to write a dissertation? I don't accept that it does. I think the distinction between "research degree" and "degree by research" is spurious. The question is whether research is the primary element and the essential purpose of the programme, which it obviously is. Having obtained this degree a person is qualified to become a professional university teacher and researcher, not just in the US but other countries too. It is inconceivable that this would be the case if it were not internationally regarded as equivalent to a research doctorate in any other country, as it is, and rightly so.

To deny that this is a degree by research is to equate it with taught degrees with a research component. That is not what it is. Your presentation of US doctoral programmes makes no sense to me.
Marcelo González Dec 7, 2015:
90 credits after a bachelor's degree ...for a PhD in Spanish (at U of F) is what makes your typical American PhD (to the extent this exists across different disciplines and universities) something other than a 'degree by research'; it requires years of coursework (not to mention the comprehensive exams) prior to beginning the dissertation. In short, it's much more than 'primarily research' that is required. Now, is this still a 'research degree'? Well, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to say it isn't. Is it a 'degree by research'? No, it's not.
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
But in any case I don't think it's fruitful to argue further about this. I freely acknowledge that degrees called "Doctor" vary in their requirements and even in their nature. But always, or virtually always, they are radically different from the degree whose title we are translating here. And my position, as I've said several times, is simply that "Doctor of" will, by default, inevitably suggest to the reader a quite different kind of degree from the one we are dealing with. That, really, is as far as we need to go, in my opinion.
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
That sort of pattern is quite common these days, and a good thing too, in my opinion. Many doctoral programmes, by no means only in the US, have a first stage of coursework to equip students with the skills to conduct research and to enable them to make a sound choice of dissertation subject. Some of this is waived if you have a master's degree, which serves the same purpose. The track paradigm is:
- 3 Courses in track area = 9 hours
- 3 Related courses = 9 hours
- 1 Elective course = 3 hours
- Doctoral Research, Exams, and Dissertation = 39 hours
http://www.english.ufl.edu/programs/grad/index_ma_phd.html

I don't understand how anyone could deny that this is a degree by research. The taught part is preparation for research. The point of the programme is to end up writing a research dissertation. The whole thing is geared to that end.
Marcelo González Dec 7, 2015:
As an example ...of a typical American PhD in Spanish, to choose just one area, why don't you take a look at the University of Florida. It requires years of full-time graduate-level coursework, even after earning a master's degree the field, before you begin your dissertation.
http://spanishandportuguese.ufl.edu/graduate-programs/doctor...
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
That's not a special meaning. That's the normal meaning, and the one I mean myself when I use the term. And by that meaning US PhDs are degrees by research. I personally know a number of people with American PhDs in my own field (humanities), including some from the universities I mentioned, and they got them essentially the same way I got mine: by conducting a substantial piece of individual research and writing a dissertation, with the guidance of a supervisor. To say that all US PhD programmes are "taught", in the UK sense of the term, is simply untrue, to my certain knowledge.
Marcelo González Dec 7, 2015:
Yes, absolutely, Charles ...it does have a very special meaning: a degree 'by research' requires primarily research. And the last thing I would say is that a degree is a 'research degree' because of the word count of its dissertation or thesis. Quite the contrary: I'm asking or wondering what exactly you mean by 'research degree' if most do, in fact, require 'some' research. And please do not imagine either whether a particular degree I mention 'exists in the English-speaking world' or what you think may be possible at Harvard, Princeton or Stanford. Check and see yourself. In the US, there is a 'Doctor of Chiropractic (Medicine)'. In the UK, as you know quite well, there are 'taught degrees' and 'research degrees'; and in Australia, these are often called 'degrees by coursework' and 'higher degrees (by) research' (HDRs). At major American universities, however, these distictions do not exist: all of the degrees are 'taught' (to use UK terminolgy). Thus, you probably won't find a Master of Philosophy (MPhil)----a common research degree in the UK----at any leading American university; and if you did, it would be rare.. As for the rest, I stand firmy behind my comments.
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
@Marcelo No PhDs by research in humanities, social sciences or education at internationally-ranked US universities? Not at Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc., etc.? For that to be true, "by research" must have a very special meaning. I don't think any sensible definition would require it to mean "with no taught courses", so that a PhD programme which introduced a taught qualifying course suddenly stopped being a research degree. The length of the dissertation required cannot be a decisive criterion either. You can't say it's by research if the dissertation has to be over 50,000 words, for example, but is not by research if it's less. The point is whether the primary requirement for obtaining the degree is to conduct a piece of research and write a dissertation.

In any case, the source of the confusion is evident from the last part of your post, which shows that you're not aware of what this particular programme is. Please don't imagine what you think it might be; look at what it is (see Elizabeth's link in the first discussion post). Despite the name, it is an entirely taught first degree with no research requirement at all.
Marcelo González Dec 7, 2015:
Yes, Charles ...having looked into this extensively, I can assure you there are no PhDs by research (in the humanities, social sciences or education) at internationally-ranked universities in the United States (as they simply do not exist), yet does that mean that American PhD holders do not possess "research degrees"? From an international perspective, what is a "research degree"? One based entirely on research (i.e., with no coursework required); a degree based on a combination of coursework and "some" research? Define "some". Doctoral dissertations in the US can be as short as 35,000 words. My doctoral thesis in Australia, however, needed to be more than double that. As for the Doctor en Derecho y Ciencias Sociales, I would imagine it might require a combination of coursework and research. Regardless, however, of the amount of research it requires, it's a doctorate (and should not be rendered as a category).
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
All the examples you've quoted of degrees called Doctor of something other than Philosophy (except, I think, Doctor of Chiropractics, which does not exist to my knowledge in English-speaking countries) are higher degrees, and all involve some sort of research requirement. So although you may be right that careful readers, confronted with the title "Doctor of Law and Social Sciences", may guess that it is not exactly a PhD, they are very unlikely to guess that it is not a higher research-based degree.
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
Carrera de Abogacía This term, used in the description of the degree in question, makes it perfectly plain that it is a first degree which serves as a professional qualification to practise as a lawyer. It consists entirely of taught courses. The nearest equivalent in the US is obviously the JD (Doctor of Jurisprudence) degree, which is normally required to practise law. In theory, it similarly confers the title of "Doctor" (though American JDs don't normally use that title, whereas I think Uruguayan lawyers do). And nobody would call an US JD a "Doctor of Law" degree.

That doesn't mean that we can call this Uruguayan degree a JD; it would be quite wrong in principle to do so, partly, though not only, because there are important differences (notably the fact that a JD is a graduate degree and this isn't).
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
By the way What do you mean by "the United States, a country where you would be hard-pressed to find a PhD (or other higher degree) by research"? I don't understand this at all. Are you seriously saying that it's hard to find a PhD by research in the United States?
Charles Davis Dec 7, 2015:
@Marcelo Of course it is challenging to find true equivalents for specific degrees in different systems, and in any case it is not the job of a translator to do so; it is the job of an evaluator. In this case I think it's impossible; I don't think there is any degree quite like this in English-speaking countries. In a case of this kind, the correct thing to do is to give the Spanish title, and then explain, generically, what it is in terms that make sense in the target language. In other words, what I have done.

If you call it "Doctor of Law and Social Sciences" (or "Doctor of Philosophy in Law and Social Science(s)", which can only mean a PhD), I guarantee that anybody reading it will assume, wrongly, that it is a higher research degree. It is simply a mistranslation.
Elizabeth Ardans (asker) Dec 3, 2015:
This is a 6-year course.
http://www.fder.edu.uy/abogacia.html

Proposed translations

8 hrs
Spanish term (edited): Doctor en Derecho y Ciencias Sociales
Selected

Doctor of Law and Social Sciences

Given the fact that the PhD is not the only type of doctorate, this may be an obvious and very acceptable rendering. With degrees, finding true equivalence, even within a given system, can be challenging. And careful readers, when confronted with the title 'Doctor of Law and Social Sciences,' will understand that this doctoral degree is unique and, as such, comparisons between it and a J.D. and a PhD are likely to reveal significant differences.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2015-12-03 21:39:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This topic of equivalence is one with which I deal often as a UnitedStatecian (tongue-in-cheek) with a PhD from Australia. :) I also discuss the English-to-Spanish rendering of academic titles in my doctoral thesis, 'Metaphor and agency in the English-Spanish translation of texts in the social sciences' (2014). And if there's one thing I've learned about doctoral degree offerings and academic titles, within and across different national systems, is that they vary greatly (with some degrees being rarely offered, if at all) and that even when they seem similar, differences often remain. In Australia, for example, you can find the Doctor of Creative Arts (DCA) degree (at Curtain University), and the Master of Philosophy (MPhil) degree is commonplace outside of the United States, a country where you would be hard-pressed to find a PhD (or other higher degree) by research, which of course is common in the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. And don't get me started on academic titles...

I hope this helps :-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2015-12-03 21:53:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Some examples of doctoral degrees that are not the typical 'of Philosophy':

Doctor of Education, Ed.D. (widely seen at American universities)
Doctor of Letters (see Drew University)
Doctor of Modern Languages (see Middlebury College)
Doctor of Arts
Doctor of Science, D.Sc.
Doctor of Musicology
Doctor of Chiropractics, etc.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days21 hrs (2015-12-07 10:04:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And here's yet another one to add to the list above:

Doctor of Law and Policy (DLP)
http://www.northeastern.edu/seattle/find-a-degree-program/go...

With so many different types of highly specialized doctoral degrees, 'Doctor of Law and Social Sciences' may be a perfectly acceptable translation in this context.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2015-12-07 13:22:27 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

My pleasure, Elizabeth. Cheers from the Marianas :-)
Peer comment(s):
neutral Charles Davis : There is a fundamental difference between a doctorate with a research emphasis and a professional doctorate // But how many degrees called "Doctor of" in EN-speaking countries are professional first degrees? None, I think. That's why it's not fine at all.
3 days 3 hrs
Does there need to be a specific number? A>That's precisely my point: there are many kinds of doctorates (see list above) with varying requirements. "Doctor" alone is perfectly fine here.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you all. It's a very interesting discussion... I decided to keep it as literal as possible and let the people evaluating the merits (it's for a scholarship) judge it's equivalence based on the details of the courses taken, for by changing it or adding any explanation "I" think is correct, I could influence the outcome (positively or negatively). Thanks again for your time and effort."
57 mins

[Give Spanish title] (Professional doctorate in Law and Social Sciences)

You are quite right to suggest that "Doctor" alone won't do. This is not a doctorate in the usual sense and not comparable with a Ph.D. It's not a research degree. It's really more or less equivalent to an American J.D., thought more precisely it's equivalent to a B.A plus a J.D. all rolled into one. So it's really a first professional degree, and you could call it that. That is what J.D. or M.D. are in the US. However, it does confer the title of "Doctor", so I think I'd go with "Professional doctorate". This makes it clear that it is not a Ph.D.

http://www.fder.edu.uy/abogacia.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate#Professional_doctora...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_professional_degree

But I think that if at all possible you should keep the Spanish title and add a translation in parentheses. This is good practice in translating academic qualifications generally, but in this case I think it's especially desirable, for the reasons stated. Of course, if you can add a note to explain what it is, that would do no harm either.

One more thing: depending on how you phrase it, you could put "Professional doctorate" (the degree) or "Holder of a professional doctorate" (the person).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2015-12-03 13:39:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

On reflection, although "Professional doctorate" would be correct, I think, maybe "Professional degree" would be better, since it is less likely to be understood as a graduate degree (although it is a six-year course and is really equivalent to bachelor's plus master's). Professional doctorates in the US and now also in the UK are closer to Ph.D.s that this is, or at least some of them are.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Marcelo González : Sorry Charles, but isn't a 'professional doctorate' more a category than a specific degree? I also take issue with the idea that 'it's not a doctorate in the usual sense'. What is the usual sense? Doctorates come in many forms. See my explanation below.
3 days 10 hrs
Professional doctorate is a category, yes; so is Doctor. The "usual sense", obviously, is a research doctorate (Ph.D). This, by contrast, is an extended (6-year) first degree. "Doctor" alone is misleading, and of course "Doctor of Philosophy" is wrong.
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