Feb 12, 2014 15:38
10 yrs ago
French term
Boulogne-sur-Mer
Not for points
French to English
Other
Tourism & Travel
French place names
Hello everyone
I hope no overzealous monitor takes off my question but it is impossible to limit it to one example and it is a translation question
I'd like your general opinions about translating certain place names from French to English where the name clearly means something or causes a grammatical difficulty.
Here are just a few of my problems
Equihen-plage
Boulogne-sur-Mer
Le Clipon
They all have variants on Internet while other ENGLISH sites have kept the original names
But then you end up with translates sentences containing phrases like
The Le Clipon site is truly remarkable.
We saw them at Equihen-plage beach.
The French town of Boulogne-sur-mer on the coast.
On the other hand, some sites say
Equihen Beach and even Boulogne on Sea ! (which might make some people freak out)
This is not for points of course but you have my thanks which is worth even more :)
I hope no overzealous monitor takes off my question but it is impossible to limit it to one example and it is a translation question
I'd like your general opinions about translating certain place names from French to English where the name clearly means something or causes a grammatical difficulty.
Here are just a few of my problems
Equihen-plage
Boulogne-sur-Mer
Le Clipon
They all have variants on Internet while other ENGLISH sites have kept the original names
But then you end up with translates sentences containing phrases like
The Le Clipon site is truly remarkable.
We saw them at Equihen-plage beach.
The French town of Boulogne-sur-mer on the coast.
On the other hand, some sites say
Equihen Beach and even Boulogne on Sea ! (which might make some people freak out)
This is not for points of course but you have my thanks which is worth even more :)
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +11 | Boulogne-sur-Mer |
Monica Sandor
|
| 4 +5 | Boulogne-sur-Mer |
Tony M
|
Proposed translations
+11
15 mins
Monica Sandor
Belgium
Belgium
Native in English
Belgium
Accurate and fast translations
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US, Canadian) 
Works in: Flemish to English, French to English, Dutch to English, and 2 more.
Selected
Boulogne-sur-Mer
Generally I would keep foreign place names unchanged unless there is a commonly used English form (e.g. for well-known place like Venice, Florence, Vienna, etc.). If the meaning is significant for wordplay etc. and difficult for an English speaker to figure out, then a translation in parenthesis (e.g. in this case Boulogne-by-the-Sea, by analogy with similar place names in Britain - Newbiggin by the Sea, or US - Carmel-by-the-Sea) can be added.
Of course this can depend on context (and the target audience/client's preference) - there could be local expat English communities, such as in Mallorca, who have developed reasonably common English names for local places, and if that is the context or audience, it is reasonable to use it.
(For internationally recognised names I usually rely on the Getty Thesaurus of Geographical Names)
Of course this can depend on context (and the target audience/client's preference) - there could be local expat English communities, such as in Mallorca, who have developed reasonably common English names for local places, and if that is the context or audience, it is reasonable to use it.
(For internationally recognised names I usually rely on the Getty Thesaurus of Geographical Names)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Great resource, Monica! / Sorry, we must have posted at the same time ;-)
3 mins
|
| agree |
Daniel Weston
4 mins
|
| agree |
Clive Jones
5 mins
|
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
16 mins
|
| agree |
Ben Lenthall
: agree, though I'm not sure the favour would be returned!
20 mins
|
| agree |
Lorraine Dubuc
25 mins
|
| agree |
Michele Fauble
30 mins
|
| agree |
writeaway
: as some famous guy once said, 'What's in a name'.........
1 hr
|
| agree |
patrickfor
2 hrs
|
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: a name is a name
2 hrs
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| agree |
Simon Charass
11 hrs
|
Comment: "Thanks"
+5
18 mins
Boulogne-sur-Mer
As these are proper names, it is normal practice to keep them in their source language, other than for certain geographical names that have a long-standing historical precedent, like London > Londres or Wien > Vienna > Vienne or Capetown > Le Cap.
There is no need for the kind of linguistic clashes in your examples, it is simply a matter of re-phrasing more elegantly; as a single example, your "We saw them at Equihen-plage beach"
could very easily be recast as "We saw them on the beach at Equihen-plage"; the one I find sometimes most difficult to get round is where a proper name starts with a definite article, and has to be prceded by a definite article in the target language; but I've never yet been stuck for a solution...
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Note added at 48 minutes (2014-02-12 16:26:58 GMT)
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Just to add that ...-on-Sea is a perfectly acceptable place name in EN, cf Burton-on-Sea, as well as other variants like Weston-super-Mare (Latin, very erudite!), Kingston-upon-Thames, etc.
'...by-the-Sea' is actually a rare and to some extent quainter variant of the same idea.
There is no need for the kind of linguistic clashes in your examples, it is simply a matter of re-phrasing more elegantly; as a single example, your "We saw them at Equihen-plage beach"
could very easily be recast as "We saw them on the beach at Equihen-plage"; the one I find sometimes most difficult to get round is where a proper name starts with a definite article, and has to be prceded by a definite article in the target language; but I've never yet been stuck for a solution...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 minutes (2014-02-12 16:26:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Just to add that ...-on-Sea is a perfectly acceptable place name in EN, cf Burton-on-Sea, as well as other variants like Weston-super-Mare (Latin, very erudite!), Kingston-upon-Thames, etc.
'...by-the-Sea' is actually a rare and to some extent quainter variant of the same idea.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lorraine Dubuc
24 mins
|
|
Merci, Lorraine ! :-)
|
|
| agree |
Michele Fauble
27 mins
|
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Merci, Michele !
|
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| agree |
Jennifer White
: ....and to add to your final note: how about Wells-next-the-sea??! Yes,
holiday resort in Norfolk. V. nice!
3 hrs
|
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Thanks, Jennifer! Really? Didn't know that one!
|
|
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Grange-over-sands!// yes, beautiful plage in Newcastle-u-L
5 hrs
|
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Thanks, C! Oh yes, another good one! And of course, Newcastle-under-Lyne!
|
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| agree |
B D Finch
19 hrs
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Thanks, B! :-)
|
Discussion
This has helped me and made me think about what is really bugging me with place names in this translation.
I'm still doing 'bird migration' and the meaning of the place name (AudoMARAIS, Loon PLAGE, Boulogne SUR MER, CAP gris-nez etc.) is often more important than the exact geographical location on a map
Another problem is that it is reference material and giving a translation the first time a place name is used on say page 6 is not going to help the person who turns directly to page 35
But at least its clearer in my head now thanks to you all
So four thank you points to everyone
Nobody says, or writes "je vais à Le Touquet" but 'je vais AU Touquet"
so the name can be changed. I can give you 100 examples.
"The coastal town of Boulogne-sur-mer"
But NEVER to change a placename to make it "fit" into text
A name is a name is a name
Some of the issues you mention ("We saw them at Equihen-plage beach") exist even in french! the common trick is to use only the first part of the city name
"on les a vu sur la plage d'Equien"
"le site DU Clipton"
and so on....
If they are not known nor referenced, then the only proper way to have the reader find them is to keep the original, with a transliteration if needed (not for French, but for names in Cyrillic, greek or else like Beijing)
For example everybody knows "Athens" or "Baghdad" but other cities could have to be specified by their precise name