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This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Feb 9, 2011 14:06
13 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

maîtrise d'ouvrage

French to English Law/Patents IT (Information Technology) Contract
I know this term has come up before - I have looked at the relevant entries, but none of them seem to fit in my context.

The term is used in an agreement between a company and an electronic payment services provider.

In this context, can I translate it as "its offering, which it owns"?. Looks strange.

Here's the French:

ARTICLE 5 : SPECIFICATIONS
Les Prestations sont demandées par le Client pour lui permettre de réaliser les objectifs de son offre, dont il a la maîtrise d’ouvrage. En conséquence, la définition des Prestations demeure sous la responsabilité pleine et entière du Client. Le Client a défini l’intégralité des besoins composant son offre, pour définir les Prestations. XXXX attire l’attention du Client sur la nécessité d’exprimer clairement ses besoins.
En l’absence de Cahier des Charges annexé aux présentes, le descriptif détaillé des Prestations figurant en annexe 1, définit l’étendue et le périmètre desdites Prestations.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 client-side project management
4 as the contracting owner
4 Client (status)
4 -1 of which it is the prime contractor

Discussion

Mary Lalevee (asker) Feb 14, 2011:
Grading I finally went with "for which it retains full control and responsibility" as proposed by Barbara in a discussion entry. It seems impossible to grade any of the answers given as answers as none of them corresponded to this particular situation. Thanks everyone.
Mary Lalevee (asker) Feb 11, 2011:
Obviously the word "offre" confused matters, making people think it was a tender document, which this isn't. The "offre" is the products offered for sale or whatever by the Customer, for which it uses the Service Provider's services - electronic payment systems in this case.

Barbara and Alex, thanks for ""for which it retains full control and responsibility" - this looks perfect.

Thanks very much to all answerers, sorry about the confusion!

Bourth (X) Feb 11, 2011:
Barbara Yes, I too was thinking along the lines of "retains full responsibility and decisional powers". The notions of maître de l'ouvrage and maître d'oeuvre are not "conceptualized" as much/to the same extent in English as in French, and this is a case where departure far from the literal is required to convey the meaning in what will come across as normal English.
Bourth (X) Feb 11, 2011:
@jmleger They are not at all the same thing, but the two parties to a given contract! The maître d'oeuvre is the person who does the work while the maître de l'ouvrage (often, incorrectly, and facilitating confusion, maître d'ouvrage) is the (end-)person for whom the work is done. A maître d'oeuvre, when he is a prime contractor can also be a person for whom work is done, but the end-person is the maître de l'ouvrage.
It is a VERY common mistake to confuse the two, and one people intimately involved in such things make repeatedly. Only last week an engineering customer of mine used maître d'oeuvre where maître de l'ouvrage was meant.
jmleger Feb 11, 2011:
I meant to type "prime contractor" but i am typing on a soft surface and my keystrokes don't always register. Sorry.
jmleger Feb 11, 2011:
a Maître d''oeuvre (or d'ouvrage" is a prime contr what is so difficult to understand. Haven't you ever translated tender documents?
B D Finch Feb 10, 2011:
Hmm As this now sounds less like a project to be managed, perhaps it could be put more simply in English than it was in French. Something like "for which it retains full control and responsibility"?
Marie-Pascale Wersinger Feb 10, 2011:
To carry out the objectives of his offer, the implementation of which he is the final destinator
Mary Lalevee (asker) Feb 10, 2011:
Hi there Bourth,

As I understand it, the Customer is going to outsource electronic payment services to the Service Provider. This has all been agreed. The "offre", I think is what the Customer "offers" its own customers, using the outsourced services. So the Customer "owns" its own "offre".
Bourth (X) Feb 10, 2011:
As I read it between the lines the offre is clear in the Client's mind but has yet to be clearly formulated (for which the Prestataire will be put to work - "pour lui [le Client] permettre de réaliser les objectifs de son offre [l'offre du Client]"), which means that no bid has yet been submitted to the prospective Client of the Client. Is that the case?
Or has the Client's bid been submitted to and accepted by the Client's Client, and now has to be fine tuned and the actual work carried out by the prestataire?
It all depends on the interpretation of les objectifs de son offre. Is it the objectives of the bid (which has already been submitted and accepted) which have to be attained (réalisés), or is it the declared objectives of a future bid which have to be drawn up (réalisés)?

Proposed translations

-1
6 mins

of which it is the prime contractor

plutôt
Peer comment(s):
disagree Bourth (X) : That would be maîtrise d'oeuvre.
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 mins

as the contracting owner

*
Something went wrong...
16 mins

Client (status)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ienC8cR...
English button too!

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Note added at 27 minutes (2011-02-09 14:34:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Maybe use Owner (for Client) earlier in the sentence?
Something went wrong...
+2
28 mins

client-side project management

In other words, the owner "maître d'ouvrage" has not contracted out the project management, but is performing this function in-house. Note that the main contractor is the "maître d'oeuvre", not the "maître d'ouvrage".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2011-02-09 14:40:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Correction: The maître d'oeuvre is not necessarily the main contractor, but may be the designer or engineer, employed by the owner to design the scheme and project manage the work.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2011-02-09 21:50:56 GMT)
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On second thoughts, my formulation may have been influenced by the fact that I used to be responsible for the client-side project management of capital works for a local authority. (There was contractor-side project management too.) I now think that this formulation may relate too closely to the situation in local authorities forced to prepare for contracting out of services by separating their client and in-house contracting services. Probably Client's/Owner's project management is simpler and better. The contractor also has to provide a project management service, so it is necessary to distinguish which project management service is which.
Peer comment(s):
agree kashew : Nice formulation.
43 mins
Thanks kashew
agree philgoddard : I'm not sure what "client side" means - couldn't you just say project manager?
1 hr
Thanks phil. There is frequently a contractor's (contractor-side) project manager too. However see note I am about to post
neutral Alan Douglas (X) : Surely the "client" be it an individual, company or other is the "maître d'ouvrage", if the client role is delegated or contracted out to another party or agent they are the "maître d'ouvrage délégué". The "Maître d'oeuvre" is not the client.
2 hrs
The question concerns "maîtrise d'ouvrage". You are absolutely right about "maître d'ouvrage délégué", but what that person is responsible for is the "maîtrise d'ouvrage".
Something went wrong...
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