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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

since

English answer:

perfect tense usage

Added to glossary by Marc Heinitz
Feb 10, 2010 15:45
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

since

Not for points English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Grammar question \
hi,
just wondering: is it actually incorrect to say "Since 2007 he is a member of the group"?
Learned in school that you can only use since with the perfect tense; i.e. that "Since 2007 he has been a member of the group" is the only RIGHT answer... what do the natives say ? ;-) thx
Responses
4 +15 yes - it's incorrect
4 +4 since: tenses
Change log

Feb 10, 2010 15:58: Kim Metzger changed "Language pair" from "German to English" to "English" , "Field" from "Other" to "Art/Literary"

Feb 15, 2010 08:22: Marc Heinitz changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/70143">Marc Heinitz's</a> old entry - "since"" to ""perfect tense usage""

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): Cilian O'Tuama, Kim Metzger

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Discussion

British Diana Feb 11, 2010:
No need to be sorry No need to be sorry, Armourel, this example taken from a European context just proves YOUR point! The form IS incorrect, although it IS used - but not by native speakers.
Armorel Young Feb 10, 2010:
Sorry Diana That example just re-hashes the same incorrect grammar in a different way - there is no getting round the fact that (to my ears) the only correct form is "XX has been a member of YY since ZZZZ"
British Diana Feb 10, 2010:
A good example.....What do you think? How about this, folks: "Since 2005, Sebastian Oberthür serves as a member of the Scientific Steering Committee of the Institutional Dimensions of Global Environmental Change."

Unfortunately for me and luckily for Richard, Kim and Armorel this is probably a "good" translation from a German text or (even worse) an English text written by someone who has lived too long in the country (someone like me) see: http://www.ies.be/CVs/SO.htm

I think this is the point where the lawyer for the other party goes back to his desk in the courtroom and says, "I rest my case".

I will shut up now.
Armorel Young Feb 10, 2010:
Colloquial versus foreign usage Marc, the "he's a member of the group since 2007" thing isn't a case of colloquial usage, it's an example of non-native speakers' English being "contaminated" by the grammar of their native language. English-speakers in Britain never, ever say "I am coming here for 5 years", however colloquial they are being - as Richard says, you have to be around native German speakers to hear people saying this (and frequency of hearing doesn't make it "correct" either)
Marc Heinitz (asker) Feb 10, 2010:
Grammar vs. usage I suppose that the thing I'm trying to get at is: "proper" grammar rules vs. what one actually uses in modern/colloquial English nowadays...
British Diana Feb 10, 2010:
challenge Well, Richard and Kim, you have put me in a quandry now, because I must find examples spoken or written by "real" native English speakers and not just ones uttered by those awful ex-pats who pride themselves on their wonderful RP and in fact talk some sort of adulterated German English. If not, I will resign, ashamed !
Richard Nice Feb 10, 2010:
Since we are in Germany I fear we hear it soooo often because we are in Germany, innit?
Kim Metzger Feb 10, 2010:
Diana I don't recall ever hearing it from native English speakers. Can you cite an example?
British Diana Feb 10, 2010:
But we hear this soooo often! Armorel may well be right in that the "rule" is to use present perfect continuous - but why do we keep hearing the other possibility that Marc cites: "Since 2007 he is a member of the group"?
I hear it so often that I am beginning to wonder if the rule is not out of date - or has it something to do with the verb "to be"?

Responses

+15
3 mins
Selected

yes - it's incorrect

The correct way of saying it is "He has been a member of the group since 2007" - there isn't any scope for an alternative tense here.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jonathan MacKerron : spot on
3 mins
agree Melanie Nassar : Both sides of the pond agree on this one
6 mins
agree Kim Metzger : One of those painful formulations, like informations. Sadly also found not infrequently in German and Dutch CVs advertising their skills for translating into English. I'm a translator since 5 years.
11 mins
agree Darius Saczuk
11 mins
agree mill2 : absolutely
11 mins
agree marina hennies
18 mins
agree Paula Vaz-Carreiro
18 mins
agree Ildiko Santana
21 mins
agree Richard McDorman : I completely agree. In fact, I have agreed since I was child...
26 mins
agree Patricia Townshend (X)
33 mins
agree Joanna Scudamore-Trezek
40 mins
agree Noni Gilbert Riley : Altho I sympathize with Diana who, by dint of hearing it so often, is beginning to think it may be acceptable, I am in the "no scope for alternative" group!
45 mins
agree Monika Elisabeth Sieger
55 mins
agree Jenni Lukac (X)
1 hr
agree John Detre
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
12 mins

since: tenses

From Michael Swan, Practical English Usage:

In sentences with since, we normally use present perfect and past perfect tenses in the main clause.
They've known each other since 1980.
(Not They know each other since ...)
We haven't seen Jamie since Christmas.

However, present and past tenses are also occasionally found, especially in sentences about changes.
You're looking much better since your operation.
She doesn't come round to see us much since her marriage.
Since last Sunday I can't stop thinking about you.

This often happens in the structure It is/was.... since....
It's (been) a long time since the last meeting.

tenses in since-clauses

In the examples above, 'since' is used as a preposition. But 'since' can also be used as a conjunction of time, introducing its own clause. The tense in the since-clause can be perfect or past, depending on the meaning. Compare:

I've known her since we were at school together.
I've known her since I've lived in this street.
We visit my parents every week since we bought the car.
Peer comment(s):
agree Ildiko Santana
13 mins
agree Richard Nice : The examples above where the present tense is used strike me too as acceptable English and neater than the alternatives, but perhaps one has to be an accredited native speaker to get away with it... If a 'foreigner' does it, it's risky...
34 mins
agree Hermien Desaivre
38 mins
agree Stephanie Ezrol
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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