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Aren
PAPsyt. der Trikuspidklappe ohne ZVD
Jan 13, 2010 19:32
14 yrs ago
German term

denken in Naht- und nicht Schnittstellen

German to English Marketing Management
Naht- and Schnittstellen both mean "interfaces". This is from some company blurb about management principles in an internet company. It is using sewing references including seam and cut. The idea as I understand it is to see interfaces with others as positive not negative, to see the join and not the division.

Could you help with a neat English way to communicate the same idea?

so far I have "think in terms of intersection not division" but this seems a little lame.
Proposed translations (English)
3 thinking in terms of unified action rather than interaction
3 +5 seamless thinking
4 thinking in terms of linkage rather than interface
3 +1 joined-up thinking
3 we believe in not just (loosely) joining up but knitting closely together
3 We believe in convergence not divergence......
References
interfacing
Change log

Jan 13, 2010 21:18: Steffen Walter changed "Field (specific)" from "Other" to "Management"

Discussion

Sonja Marks-Terrey (asker) Jan 18, 2010:
Finally made a decision I used Berhard'S idea of intersecting and interconnecting in the end but I really value al your comments and suggestions. Thank you!
Bernhard Sulzer Jan 15, 2010:
Re: bonding It brings up other connotations, male bonding, very strong glue (IMO):)
British Diana Jan 14, 2010:
@Andrew and Sonja : "We believe in bonding" How about this: "We believe in bonding rather than loosely connecting...." I have only just realised that it is a mission statement we need!
See the following link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&lr=&rls=com.microsoft:de:...
Sonja Marks-Terrey (asker) Jan 14, 2010:
You're right I'm not crazy about it either! I need a night's sleep and will have one last stab at it in the morning. thanks for all your help everyone!
Lancashireman Jan 14, 2010:
not As a follow-up to my comment on Diana’s contribution (below), I think vision and mission statements should always be phrased in positive terms. Consequently, the second part of your bullet point (if indeed you require one) should be linked with ‘rather than’ instead of ‘not’.
Annett Kottek (X) Jan 14, 2010:
@ Sonja Sorry, I'm also not crazy about it. I did find something online that may be useful [despite its appalling style] if you really want to persevere with the extended metaphor: ‘What sociology at its best provides is not a bundle of taught courses and inculcation in supposedly key theory or methods, but the possibility and excitement of joined-up thinking. "The studies" have grown and interfaced with sociology because they provide similar possibilities to sociology - an ebullience and intellectual confidence about the intellectual enterprise engaged in, of doing ****joined-up thinking by stitching together ideas**** sans frontiers, without inter/disciplinary or other frontiers to intellectual engagement and analytical purchase.’
http://www.socresonline.org.uk/10/3/stanley.html

If all fails, it might be best to just stick with 'joined-up thinking' - - it's one of those buzzword just like 'synergy' that closely follows it. Cf. also: http://www.pearsonlongman.com/business/teachers/business-res...
Lancashireman Jan 14, 2010:
lasting bonds To be frank, Sonja, that sounds more appropriate for a town twinning agreement.
Sonja Marks-Terrey (asker) Jan 14, 2010:
All so inspiring The last 2 contributions (Diana and Annett) got me thinking agan and I now have "We think in terms of lasting bonds not fleeting interfaces". What do you think?
Annett Kottek (X) Jan 14, 2010:
Nahtstelle vs. Schnittstelle It’s not so much that a ‘Schnittstelle’ is divisive but rather that the connection between the two points, i.e. the ‘interface’, is not fixed. What’s implied is that the interaction between the various departments (if that’s what we’re talking about) is not enduring; they only come together as and when needed. ‘Nahtstelle’, on the other hand, serves to highlight not only that there are different parts in the company; it also shows that these perforce have to work closely with one another, because they’ve been sewn/fastened together. The seam thus symbolizes this bond. This is why I’d try to retain the image of the ‘Nahtstelle’.

While I've been writing, British Diana posted a suggestion that pretty much says what I've been trying to explain. :-)
Sonja Marks-Terrey (asker) Jan 14, 2010:
a little more context Wir sind unbürokratisch.
Wir denken in Naht-Stellen und nicht in Schnitt-Stellen,
suchen ständig Synergien, arbeiten in flachen Hierarchien,
optimieren ständig unsere Prozesse.

this is about as much context as there is. The whole text is 10 pages of bullet points describiing the comany's "Selbstverständnis und Werte". You can imagine the rest I am sure.
Sonja Marks-Terrey (asker) Jan 14, 2010:
I appreciate all your efforts. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. You are all helping my ideas to sort themselves out a bit. I have to come up with something tonight so watch this space. I might go in a completely different direction, not sure yet.
Bernhard Sulzer Jan 14, 2010:
seamless versus perfect seam Just my thoughts. Schnittstelle as cutting/dividing point doesn't work for me here either. That's already much more negative than the German Schnittstelle. Here is why I think "think seamless" can work here.
The perfect seam will make everything (the connection/interaction) appear seamless (perfect seams for seamless interaction?? perfect seams make perfect teams??? )
Sonja Marks-Terrey (asker) Jan 14, 2010:
Celebrating They're definitely positive about the Nahtstellen rather than the Schnittstellen. It's about the coming together of people across the company to promote new ideas, growth etc. The key point is that the seam (the junction, joining) is good, it's how you view it that makes the difference. If you view it as a Schnittstelle then you see the division rather than the join and are therefore not such a team player, I think is the meaning.
Lancashireman Jan 14, 2010:
Denken in Nahtstellen Hi Sonja,
Do you get the impression the company is 'celebrating' the seams in some way or wishing them away (nahtlos)?

Proposed translations

1 day 5 hrs
Selected

thinking in terms of unified action rather than interaction

for here:
(we) think in terms of unified action rather than interaction

or:
we believe in the point of unified action rather than points of interaction
value the point of unity (unified action) rather than points of interaction


Wir sind unbürokratisch.
Wir denken in Naht-Stellen und nicht in Schnitt-Stellen,
suchen ständig Synergien, arbeiten in flachen Hierarchien,
optimieren ständig unsere Prozesse.

Die Nahtstellen sind die Stellen, wo Materialien/Systeme/Teams "zusammengenäht" sind (also eins werden), das Interface (die Schnittstelle), wo zwei oder mehrere separate Punkte/Teams/Systeme miteinander zusammenarbeiten/interagieren. Meine Interpretation für hier.


we think in terms of unified action rather than interaction

http://www.answers.com/topic/interface
A point at which independent systems or diverse groups interact


http://www.answers.com/topic/interdependence
The interlocking of parts within a system. Within human geography, it is a view of a system as a whole, stressing the role of each part of the system. For example, an advanced economy may depend on the raw materials of a less advanced economy just as much as the latter depends on the finished goods and technology of the former.

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Note added at 2 days6 hrs (2010-01-16 02:00:21 GMT)
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how about this one:

(we) don't merely (just) intersect but interconnect

I also thought of "intertwined" but it seems hard to come up with something:

think intertwined, not just aligned

and short:
think together, not separate


Peer comment(s):
neutral Lancashireman : What is wrong with ‘interaction’? A company cannot succeed without positively embracing 'interaction'. This sends out a negative message. // Getting better. But can 'seamless thinking' be overhauled? Will this go down to the wire, i.e. the grading robot?
11 hrs
Nothing. I saw unified action/unity as a step up from interaction, i.e. even better. That's what the German says in my opinion. I had thought of adding a "mere/simply" etc. before interaction but then it sounds weaker IMO.
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "THanks Berhard. I used a version of the intersect/interconnect idea in the end. Everyone was so helpful."
+5
1 hr

seamless thinking

If you want to retain the reference to sewing and needlework (Naht und Schnitt), you could use the word "seamless", but like Andrew says a little more context would be useful.
Peer comment(s):
agree jccantrell : My first thought, Think seamless.
1 hr
neutral Bernhard Sulzer : I don't think this will fit after new info was posted by asker: "seamless" by itself and no other sewing context can make one think of all kinds of things.:)
1 hr
agree szakkriszta : 'think seamless' sounds great!
4 hrs
agree casper (X) : very nice, Stephen
7 hrs
neutral Annett Kottek (X) : With Andrew here. ‘Nahtlos’ removes the idea that they weave together various voices/ideas; the final product becomes a patchwork quilt, if you like, where everyone can see his or her contribution. ‘Seamless’ suggests [faceless] assimilation.
10 hrs
agree Rolf Keiser
12 hrs
agree Nicole Backhaus
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

thinking in terms of linkage rather than interface

Nahtstelle means a seamless connection, whereas Schnittstelle means where two components meet
Peer comment(s):
neutral Armorel Young : I think the English reader would be puzzled as to what the difference between linkage and interface is supposed to be - there's a lot of over lap between the two terms in EN (and wouldn't a seamless connection be a nahtlose Stelle, not a Nahtstelle?)
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
12 mins

joined-up thinking

http://tinyurl.com/yczase3

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Note added at 19 mins (2010-01-13 19:51:47 GMT)
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Alternatively: "Seeing the wood for the trees" (Seeing the big picture)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/08/seeing-the-wood-for-tr...

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Note added at 50 mins (2010-01-13 20:22:20 GMT)
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Sorry, without seeing the full context, both of my suggestions seem slightly at odds with your own reading (“to see interfaces with others as positive not negative”).
That being the case, perhaps you need a phrase built round the verb ‘decompartmentalise’ or the noun ‘decompartmentalisation’. A decompartmentalising approach?


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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-01-14 13:11:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Despite the fact that there are five people here who appear to know your context well, I don't think 'seamless' will work for the reasons stated by Annett and Armorel.

So I should like to propose another possibility, though not quite as 'neat':
"focus on what unites us rather than what divides us"
44 hits for complete phrase here: http://tinyurl.com/ye3xm77

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2010-01-14 13:44:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A bit neater (minus two words): "focus on what unites rather than divides us" x 55 @ http://tinyurl.com/ye42cyk
Peer comment(s):
agree Bernhard Sulzer : although I keep thinking of "united we stand, divided...." there is nothing wrong with your interpretation!
2 days 6 hrs
Thanks, Bernhard. Still a long way to go before any of us catches the current 'most helpful' answer, however, with votes from as far afield as Hungary, Switzerland, Namibia and Honduras.
Something went wrong...
22 hrs

we believe in not just (loosely) joining up but knitting closely together

We were not really given the sentence into which this expression should be fitted, so this is just a try.

Getting away from cuts and seams to knitting and joining...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lancashireman : There has to be a neater formulation than "We believe in not..."
1 hr
I had to guess the context, perhaps:We believe in our employees not just...
neutral Bernhard Sulzer : my first association with "knitting" was a bunch of guys sitting in close proximity, sewing/knitting jackets; what do you think, Diana?;0) / yes, but that might just be me. Greetings! /:)
4 hrs
Spot on, Bernhard - but I suspect my next suggestion will have you thinking of the bunch of guys sitting around glueing toy planes???// it makes ME think of work therapy in a loonie-bin by now;-)
Something went wrong...
3 days 15 hrs

We believe in convergence not divergence......

Nahtstelle-joining together= convergence
Scnittstelle-to part, cut= divergence
Example sentence:

C

Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

interfacing

http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/sewinginfo/simplicity-sew...

Interfacing

Interfacing is an extra layer of fabric that provides shape and support in detail areas of the garment. Interfacing is frequently used in collars, cuffs, lapels, necklines, pockets, waistbands and opening edges.

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Note added at 21 hrs (2010-01-14 17:24:12 GMT)
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I see Schnittstellen not as dividing points put rather as already necessary junctions (maybe of the departments/teams) and Nahtstellen are junctions also, but really interconnected.

think interconnecting seams, not just junction points

but again, that doesn't do it for me.


Schnittstelle as cutting point doesn't work for me here either. That's already much more negative than the German Schnittstelle.

Here is why I think "think seamless" can work here.

The perfect seam will make everything (the connection) appear seamless.


Think perfect seam for seamless interaction ????????? (really not sure)

Perfect seams make perfect teams (kind of silly)


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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2010-01-14 23:27:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

based on your new info, I am convinced anything with seamless by itself will not work.

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2010-01-14 23:31:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would avoid the sewing (seam etc.) reference altogether.
Note from asker:
Not silly, Bernhard! Thanks for all your thoughts. I am still chewing it all over.
Something went wrong...
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