This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
accompagner chaque talent vers l’excellence
pont en voussoir préfabriqué

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

un homme du sérail

English translation:

born into the business

Added to glossary by David BUICK
Oct 20, 2009 06:55
14 yrs ago
French term

un homme du sérail

French to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general)
This is being used to describe a son taking over from his father as the head of a large, family-owned business. I know what it means but am casting around for something better than my current attempt. Suggestions welcome!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 a man born to the business
3 establishment figure; It's not what you know, it's who you know
3 a man with insider's knowledge / who knows the score
3 .....steeped in the business....
3 a chip off the old block
3 homegrown talent
1 bred in the bone
References
example in context
un homme du serail

Discussion

David BUICK (asker) Oct 20, 2009:
Maybe I spend too much time on Google... I'm sorry not to benefit from your insights and have no wish to waste your time. The amount of stuff one can find even with asterisks all over the place is terrifying - ever tried? All those who wish to write me off as paranoid, please form a line to the left... Alternatively, if there's a good forum to discuss this somewhere and someone feels like starting a thread, I'll try and join the fray. In the mean time, I reserve my right to minimise detail as per the posting instructions and release the population at large from feeling obligated to answer :)
philgoddard Oct 20, 2009:
I've got several ideas which haven't been mentioned yet, but I don't see any point in posting them if you won't provide context, because I may be wasting my time. There IS no exact equivalent of this phrase! If you don't want to reveal who your client is, why not use asterisks or something like that?
David BUICK (asker) Oct 20, 2009:
<scratches head> For my purposes, as I've already tried to explain, the example Writeaway has provided is fine in terms of the sort of register I'm looking for, with the added proviso (already stated in an note to another poster) that I'm looking for an expression which indicates a family connection.
Carol Gullidge Oct 20, 2009:
so how about it then? as w/a suggests, giving us the reasons the dictionary defs don't work here. After all, KudoZ does ask us to provide as much context as poss - to help us help you in an informed way!
David BUICK (asker) Oct 20, 2009:
Cagey, unfair, dictionary... I think the problem I have addressed with Carol is a very real one and that Writeaway's comment has provided a useful way round it which is worth bearing in mind for future occasions. As to dictionaries, I think we have a breadth of views here no dictionary can hope to match on this kind of question. As to being unfair, I'm grateful for all contributions, but there's no obligation to participate! If I think I can't make a decent stab at an answer due to a lack of context, I don't answer and that's all there is to it.
Carol Gullidge Oct 20, 2009:
cagey mmmh, but that's hardly fair on us, however entertaining this might be for you. Surely, at least the sentence - or part of it - or the register required would help us to help you - if that is indeed what you want
writeaway Oct 20, 2009:
None of the dictionary solutions will do? The Fr-En dictionaries offer a number of different translations. Without revealing any secret info, can you explain why none of them are of any use?
David BUICK (asker) Oct 20, 2009:
Sorry to be cagey, but remember the warning... I once posted what I thought was a completely untraceable excerpt on ProZ. I understood subsequently from the agency the job was for that the term referred to a unique process by the end customer (which explained why I couldn't find it!). The latter had activated Google watch for occurrences of the term and was none too pleased to see it appear here, even anonymously. Since then I've redoubled my degree of caution in this respect. In the mean time, I'm enjoying the breadth of suggestions immensely and I hope others are too!
Carol Gullidge Oct 20, 2009:
context please At least the sentence that the term appears in, preferably more, to give us a feel for what you're looking for
David BUICK (asker) Oct 20, 2009:
to satisfy your curiosity... "A real insider". Feel free to award me points ;-)
Tony M Oct 20, 2009:
Perhaps you could start us off... ...by telling us what your "current attempt" actually is?

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

a man born to the business

Another option.

Could we see the whole sentence if there is one, to see how to make it fit?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-20 08:16:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There are examples of the phrase used in this context on the Oueb, e.g.

http://blog.nola.com/judywalker/2008/07/distiller_was_born_t...

Distiller was born to the business

Chris Sule, distiller at Old New Orleans Rum, said it was a big honor for him to give a rum presentation this year with the Tales of the Cocktail heavy hitters whose books he studied.

"I came from a family of brewers," Sule said. "Both my grandfathers, one of them worked at Jax Brewery and one worked at Falstaff."



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-20 08:27:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

No probs, I understand that we have to respect confidentiality!
Note from asker:
Hi Sandra, while this is not about Jean Sarkozy ;-) it is for quite a high-profile customer whose identity I'm anxious not to reveal inadvertently! In the mean time, your suggestion incorporates the family idea quite nicely - thank you!
Peer comment(s):
agree mimi 254 : yes - a man born to it
11 mins
neutral writeaway : perhaps more born 'into' it, from the meagre context revealed.
27 mins
"Into" is good too.
agree Yolanda Broad : Looks like a nifty solution to me!
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks. I went with "born into" the business (cf Writeaway) in the end. I don't know about the rest of you, but when searching KudoZ I often find the proposed answers equally if not more edifying than the one finally selected, so thanks to all contributors!"
1 hr

establishment figure; It's not what you know, it's who you know

is what Collins Robert gives

but more context would help to know what it is you're looking for. ST would provide such things as register, and may give us a clue as to why you're not looking for a straightforward dictionary def...

Hence my lowish CR

A couple more stabs in the dark

The old boy network

family connections

like father, like son

blood is thicker than...

...

Again, we don't really know what it is you're looking for, without at least the sentence that contains it
Something went wrong...
9 mins

a man with insider's knowledge / who knows the score

I think this depends on how the expression is being used within the sentence, but I like "knows the score" for this type of situation.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 mins (2009-10-20 07:14:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

uy, I didn't see that :-) well, off the top of my head, I guess you could add "family" to a noun such as "business/trade" to get that across. I don't think something like "chip off the old block" is appropriate here. I guess maybe "cut from the family cloth"; but again, these deal with being similar in personality, rather than possessing the same expertise.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2009-10-20 07:15:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think if you're going to use "inside", then perhaps "with the inside scoop" is the most idiomatic way to do so.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2009-10-20 07:16:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

how about "following in his father's footsteps"?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-10-20 08:22:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or "clinging to his father's coattails", although I think this maybe reads perjoratively.
Note from asker:
Well as you can see from my attempt revealed to Tony above, I think you're a real genius for suggesting "insider" ;-), but I'm wondering if there's a way of getting the family aspect across (I understand this to literally mean something like "a son of the harem"...)
Something went wrong...
10 mins

.....steeped in the business....

Just to get the ball rolling...;

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-10-20 09:13:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

.....brought up in the business.... might give you the family connection you seek.
Something went wrong...
15 mins

a chip off the old block

or do they just mean "nepotism" - sorry, couldn't resist! Think "Sarko"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2009-10-20 07:12:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the "home" candidate
local lad made good

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2009-10-20 07:20:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

a member of the home team

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2009-10-20 07:33:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or even the HEIR APPARENT

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 55 mins (2009-10-20 07:51:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

home grown product

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-10-20 09:20:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

someone from the RANKS
Note from asker:
hehe... in this case the author is most likely the "chip off the old block" himself, so I think "nepotism" is out...
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

bred in the bone

if your context allows you to wander this far from the French
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

homegrown talent

Not sure this is the right tone but it's the sort of title you might see in En for the Smart article.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

example in context

Un homme du sérail pour Smart
AUTOMOBILE

20/10/2000
Après le départ de Christophe Debrie, DaimlerChrysler France, la maison mère de la petite voiture urbaine, a nommé Bertrand Saugnac à la tête de Smart. Il est placé sous la responsabilité de François Le Clec'h, directeur général des voitures particulières Mercedes et Smart. À 36ans, Bertrand Saugnac a déjà à son actif douze ans de maison. Depuis 1997, il était chef du département administration commerciale à la direction générale voitures particulières de la filiale DaimlerChrysler France. Son arrivée coïncide avec une période où la Smart, lancée il y a maintenant deux ans, semble enfin trouver sa vitesse de croisière en France.
http://www.strategies.fr/actualites/marques/r15177W/un-homme...
Note from asker:
Thanks Writeaway: that's similar to the register I'm looking for.
Something went wrong...
8 hrs
Reference:

un homme du serail

Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search