Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
tonloses Atmen
English translation:
unpitched breathing
Added to glossary by
Gert Sass (M.A.)
Jul 1, 2011 13:18
13 yrs ago
German term
Leanne Coleman
tonloses Atmen
German to English
Art/Literary
Music
Tonloses Atmen der Bläser, leise Bogenstriche quer über den Steg des Cellos, Geräusche des gestrichenen Marimbaphons – allmählich erst kommt das Ensemble zum Ton. [http://www.texthalde.ch/Holliger2-etc.htm]
Es ist ein tonloses Atmen, dennoch höre ich das Lied in allen Facetten sehr deutlich. [http://www.hermann-mensing.de/dezember07.htm]
I don't understand what 'tonloses Atmen' means in German and I wouldn't like to guess-translate.
Anybody out there who can help, please? TIA.
Es ist ein tonloses Atmen, dennoch höre ich das Lied in allen Facetten sehr deutlich. [http://www.hermann-mensing.de/dezember07.htm]
I don't understand what 'tonloses Atmen' means in German and I wouldn't like to guess-translate.
Anybody out there who can help, please? TIA.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | unpitched breathing |
Gert Sass (M.A.)
|
| 4 +1 | soundless/noiseless breathing |
Marci Warner
|
| 4 | toneless breathing |
Erik Freitag
|
| 4 | aspiration |
Ramey Rieger (X)
|
References
| Info |
Kim Metzger
|
Change log
Jul 15, 2011 04:46: Gert Sass (M.A.) Created KOG entry
Jul 15, 2011 04:47: Gert Sass (M.A.) changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/69048">Gert Sass (M.A.)'s</a> old entry - "tonloses Atmen"" to ""unpitched breathing""
Proposed translations
+2
2 hrs
Gert Sass (M.A.)
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Specializes in field
Germany
Precision for those who appreciate it.
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Selected
unpitched breathing
(alt.: pitchless b.)
Previous suggestions are too unspecific, if not misleading in a musical context. Example 1 obviously refers to the *sound* which can be produced (in fact, which most beginners will inevitably produce before being able to properly handle their instrument) by just breathing heavily into a brass or woodwinds instrument with little or no lip tension. Composers have used such sounds deliberately to achieve certain effects.
Examples:
• Event Calendar V0.1
media.cla.auburn.edu/cla/EventCalendar/eventshow.cfm?... - Im Cache
30 Mar 2011 – The ***unpitched breathing*** of the violin at the end of the second piece signals the ultimate destination, arrived at in the suspended time of ...
►
• Display Event | Music | Auburn University
https://media.cla.auburn.edu/music/display_event.cfm?... - Im Cache
The ***unpitched breathing*** of the violin at the end of the second piece signals ...
Weitere Ergebnisse von auburn.edu
• [PDF]
Some Notes on the Composition of Rainstick for Tape Alone Gerald ...
www.gdbennett.net/texts/Notes_on_Rainstick.pdf
Dateiformat: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Schnellansicht
fire, water and ***unpitched breathing*** using the Csound programs mentioned above and soon had more material than I could possibly use ...
• OUP: Crosse: Peace - Oxford University Press
ukcatalogue.oup.com/.../978019355... - Vereinigtes Königreich - Im Cache
In Peace for Brass the basic dynamic is pianissimo and the gradation from silence, to ***unpitched breathing*** through the instrument, to sounding pitch can be ...
• London Sinfonietta at Kings Place, London N1 live reviews | Music ...
entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and.../live.../article4900872.ece
8 Oct 2008 – Then came the tiny Quintettino No 2 by Sciarrino, its bright clarinet notes scattered like dust in the ***unpitched breathing*** of flute, ...
• A Structure of Physicalities: Helmut Lachenmann's temA | Chris ...
www.chrisswithinbank.net/.../a-structure-of-physicalities-h... - Im Cache
29 Mar 2011 – 64 and in the movement from an ***unpitched breathing*** (of the group as a whole) to pitch and back in bb. 159 – 168. ...
• Most Valuable Players : San Francisco Classical Voice
www.sfcv.org/reviews/san...music.../most-valuable-players - Im Cache
4 Apr 2011 – Nearly every sound in this work is produced by extended techniques — key clicks, ***unpitched breathing*** through the instruments, and so on, ...
• Amazon.com: Personne's review of Flute Concertos by Dalbavie ...
www.amazon.com/review/RTF8BUKHWMY8A - Im Cache
Primarily consisting of disjointed segments, it features more keyslaps and ***unpitched breathing*** than it does actual flute playing. ...
• reviews_cs035
www.creativesourcesrec.com/reviews/reviews_035.html - Im Cache
While his partner concentrates on ***unpitched breathing*** sounds, Stackenäs masterfully alternates carefully selected bits of high frequency feedback and string ...
Less examples for ***pitchless breathing***:
• Sub luna, Erik Bergman
www.chesternovello.com/default.aspx?TabId...2... - Im Cache
The ***pitchless breathing*** and hissing sounds on the woodwinds may express unreal states." © Kimmo Korhonen, November 1998 (translated by © Susan Sinisalo, ...
►
• audience's expectations. Here, surely, is a subject worthy of full ...
ml.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/66/2/193-b.pdf
brief Latin quotation, he is accompanied only by an enigmatic rustle of ***pitchless breathing*** through all five wind instruments. Petrassi has suggested that ...
• Cell 133 | Gaia Online
www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php/?t...t... - Im Cache
14 Beiträge - 2 Autoren - Letzter Eintrag: 12. März
The only thing that could remotely be heard was the soft sound of ***pitchless breathing***. Two beds, walls, a bathroom, everything painted and ...
• Sub luna Op. 116 (1990) - Fimic - Suomalaisen musiikin tiedotuskeskus
www.fimic.fi/.../106E0B2BECF9A68AC22574AB002AEB... - Im Cache
The ***pitchless breathing*** and hissing sounds on the woodwinds may express unreal states." © Kimmo Korhonen, November 1998 (translated by © Susan Sinisalo, ...
Previous suggestions are too unspecific, if not misleading in a musical context. Example 1 obviously refers to the *sound* which can be produced (in fact, which most beginners will inevitably produce before being able to properly handle their instrument) by just breathing heavily into a brass or woodwinds instrument with little or no lip tension. Composers have used such sounds deliberately to achieve certain effects.
Examples:
• Event Calendar V0.1
media.cla.auburn.edu/cla/EventCalendar/eventshow.cfm?... - Im Cache
30 Mar 2011 – The ***unpitched breathing*** of the violin at the end of the second piece signals the ultimate destination, arrived at in the suspended time of ...
►
• Display Event | Music | Auburn University
https://media.cla.auburn.edu/music/display_event.cfm?... - Im Cache
The ***unpitched breathing*** of the violin at the end of the second piece signals ...
Weitere Ergebnisse von auburn.edu
• [PDF]
Some Notes on the Composition of Rainstick for Tape Alone Gerald ...
www.gdbennett.net/texts/Notes_on_Rainstick.pdf
Dateiformat: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Schnellansicht
fire, water and ***unpitched breathing*** using the Csound programs mentioned above and soon had more material than I could possibly use ...
• OUP: Crosse: Peace - Oxford University Press
ukcatalogue.oup.com/.../978019355... - Vereinigtes Königreich - Im Cache
In Peace for Brass the basic dynamic is pianissimo and the gradation from silence, to ***unpitched breathing*** through the instrument, to sounding pitch can be ...
• London Sinfonietta at Kings Place, London N1 live reviews | Music ...
entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and.../live.../article4900872.ece
8 Oct 2008 – Then came the tiny Quintettino No 2 by Sciarrino, its bright clarinet notes scattered like dust in the ***unpitched breathing*** of flute, ...
• A Structure of Physicalities: Helmut Lachenmann's temA | Chris ...
www.chrisswithinbank.net/.../a-structure-of-physicalities-h... - Im Cache
29 Mar 2011 – 64 and in the movement from an ***unpitched breathing*** (of the group as a whole) to pitch and back in bb. 159 – 168. ...
• Most Valuable Players : San Francisco Classical Voice
www.sfcv.org/reviews/san...music.../most-valuable-players - Im Cache
4 Apr 2011 – Nearly every sound in this work is produced by extended techniques — key clicks, ***unpitched breathing*** through the instruments, and so on, ...
• Amazon.com: Personne's review of Flute Concertos by Dalbavie ...
www.amazon.com/review/RTF8BUKHWMY8A - Im Cache
Primarily consisting of disjointed segments, it features more keyslaps and ***unpitched breathing*** than it does actual flute playing. ...
• reviews_cs035
www.creativesourcesrec.com/reviews/reviews_035.html - Im Cache
While his partner concentrates on ***unpitched breathing*** sounds, Stackenäs masterfully alternates carefully selected bits of high frequency feedback and string ...
Less examples for ***pitchless breathing***:
• Sub luna, Erik Bergman
www.chesternovello.com/default.aspx?TabId...2... - Im Cache
The ***pitchless breathing*** and hissing sounds on the woodwinds may express unreal states." © Kimmo Korhonen, November 1998 (translated by © Susan Sinisalo, ...
►
• audience's expectations. Here, surely, is a subject worthy of full ...
ml.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/66/2/193-b.pdf
brief Latin quotation, he is accompanied only by an enigmatic rustle of ***pitchless breathing*** through all five wind instruments. Petrassi has suggested that ...
• Cell 133 | Gaia Online
www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php/?t...t... - Im Cache
14 Beiträge - 2 Autoren - Letzter Eintrag: 12. März
The only thing that could remotely be heard was the soft sound of ***pitchless breathing***. Two beds, walls, a bathroom, everything painted and ...
• Sub luna Op. 116 (1990) - Fimic - Suomalaisen musiikin tiedotuskeskus
www.fimic.fi/.../106E0B2BECF9A68AC22574AB002AEB... - Im Cache
The ***pitchless breathing*** and hissing sounds on the woodwinds may express unreal states." © Kimmo Korhonen, November 1998 (translated by © Susan Sinisalo, ...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Joel Schaefer
: This is it. The idea is to make an audible sound by breathing through a wind instrument, NOT silence. The audience is supposed to hear something. The first example mentions bowing over the cello's bridge (my instrument) and a bowed marimba.
1 hr
|
|
Thanks for your apt comment, Joel. I had also considered pointing out the metaphorical use of "breathing" (which actually seems widespread, even among piano instructors) but then decided to avoid complicating matters by going in too much detail ;-)
|
|
| agree |
Erik Freitag
: Yes, this should work well in the context (although breathing CAN have different pitches depending on which valves etc. are used)./FWIW, pitch and tone are both technical terms./ In any case, it's not silent, that's what's important here.
1 hr
|
|
Agree with your last sentence. WRT pitch vs. tone, it may be a matter of colloquial vs. technical speak: An average NS of E might not perceive much of a difference here, as a physicist should. FGR however, the wording DID work for the referenced sources.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
35 mins
soundless/noiseless breathing
This is the common term amongst musicians when referring to "silent" breathing. I find soundless slightly more poetic but I believe that noiseless is a little more common.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
lexispro
7 mins
|
| neutral |
Erik Freitag
: It's neither soundless nor noiseless, just toneless.
2 hrs
|
30 mins
Erik Freitag
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Specializes in field
Germany
Experienced, strong technical background
Native in: German 
Works in: Dutch to German, English to German, Flemish to German
Related KudoZ points
:
68
toneless breathing
Das ist ein Effekt bei Blasinstrumenten: Man betätigt Ventile/Klappen etc. ganz normal, atmet aber nur durch das Instrument, ohne mit den Lippen/dem Mund einen Ton zu erzeugen. Die wörtliche Übersetzung scheint auch im Englischen gebräuchlich: toneless breathing:
"Although musical performance has always included non-musical noise which is inessential and even a distraction – for instance, the toneless scraping of the violin bow, or toneless breathing sounds on wind instruments – during the twentieth century, the boundary between music and noise acousmatically defined was qualified. In the modernist era, beginning with the introduction of siren glissandos and other industrial noise by Varèse and Antheil, sounds which are unpitched or not discretely pitched were allowed into western art music"
http://www.andyhamilton.org.uk/andy_pdfs/Rowe_AnM.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 Stunden (2011-07-01 16:47:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Of course, this is not the same as soundless/noiseless. It is supposed to be heard.
"Although musical performance has always included non-musical noise which is inessential and even a distraction – for instance, the toneless scraping of the violin bow, or toneless breathing sounds on wind instruments – during the twentieth century, the boundary between music and noise acousmatically defined was qualified. In the modernist era, beginning with the introduction of siren glissandos and other industrial noise by Varèse and Antheil, sounds which are unpitched or not discretely pitched were allowed into western art music"
http://www.andyhamilton.org.uk/andy_pdfs/Rowe_AnM.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 Stunden (2011-07-01 16:47:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Of course, this is not the same as soundless/noiseless. It is supposed to be heard.
5 hrs
aspiration
I misunderstood the first round. this is the intentional sound of breath in wind instruments - Ian Anderson used it quite expertly.
Reference comments
9 mins
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Mexico
Native in English
Mexico
Committed to Quality and Service
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
78
Reference:
Info
I'm not enough of a musician to be sure about this, so I'm just posting something that looks like it might be on the right track.
Silent breath exercise
Now that you have the proper breathing technique, fill your lungs in a single silent gulp of air.
While maintaining proper support and control, slowly breathe out through your lips. Slowly let the air out as if you were gently blowing through a small straw. Do not actually make a sound.
It should take you at least a minute (60 seconds) to slowly let all of the air out of your lungs. You should not be gasping for breath at the end of each breath.
Pay close attention to keeping your abdominal muscles tight and keeping your air pressure up to singing levels and your breath control even and smooth throughout the exercise.
Pay close attention to keeping your throat and mouth and tongue loose and free throughout the exercise. Your throat and larynx should not tighten up.
Repeat this silent breathing technique several times as a warm up before every practice or performance.
http://www.thissideofsanity.com/lesson/vocal/breathe.html
Silent breath exercise
Now that you have the proper breathing technique, fill your lungs in a single silent gulp of air.
While maintaining proper support and control, slowly breathe out through your lips. Slowly let the air out as if you were gently blowing through a small straw. Do not actually make a sound.
It should take you at least a minute (60 seconds) to slowly let all of the air out of your lungs. You should not be gasping for breath at the end of each breath.
Pay close attention to keeping your abdominal muscles tight and keeping your air pressure up to singing levels and your breath control even and smooth throughout the exercise.
Pay close attention to keeping your throat and mouth and tongue loose and free throughout the exercise. Your throat and larynx should not tighten up.
Repeat this silent breathing technique several times as a warm up before every practice or performance.
http://www.thissideofsanity.com/lesson/vocal/breathe.html
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
opolt
: Quite so -- though in the present case there might still be a very faint, barely audible sound coming from the wind instruments, so it's more like a metaphor.
6 mins
|
| agree |
Ramey Rieger (X)
: Yes, I use this technique and wanted to post it as an answer, but my batting average is so horrid at the moment, I'm doubting everything!
26 mins
|
Discussion