Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
reposer sur des pieds
English translation:
freestanding / rest on feet
Added to glossary by
Helen Shiner
Dec 17, 2020 11:25
3 yrs ago
53 viewers *
French term
reposer sur des pieds (here)
French to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
Historical tapestries
In a description of 17th-century French tapestries made in the Beauvais factory in 1689, describing artistic composition. Context: "Le décor de ces tapisseries fait échos aux fêtes royales et spectacles qui se déroulaient dans les jardins de Versailles sous Louis XIV. En effet, jusque dans la composition on peut observer que les décors **reposent sur des pieds** rappelant leur caractère éphémère et mobile." "Decors" I presume refers to the setting of the tapestry picture, but how can that be resting on feet? Is it scenery (as on web page https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O124918/tapestry-monnoyer... Thanks in advance for any help.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +4 | (the decorative panels) rest on feet |
Helen Shiner
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3 | stand on legs |
Conor McAuley
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3 | resting on (their) feet |
Ana Vozone
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3 | the scenery rests on casters |
Mpoma
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3 -1 | Are placed on a stand |
ormiston
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Change log
Dec 22, 2020 23:24: Helen Shiner Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+4
39 mins
Selected
(the decorative panels) rest on feet
See my discussion comments
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Note added at 42 mins (2020-12-17 12:08:19 GMT)
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Or, to be honest, I think I would translate it as “the decorative panels are freestanding”.
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Note added at 44 mins (2020-12-17 12:09:53 GMT)
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The point being made is that they weren’t permanently installed somewhere.
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Note added at 42 mins (2020-12-17 12:08:19 GMT)
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Or, to be honest, I think I would translate it as “the decorative panels are freestanding”.
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Note added at 44 mins (2020-12-17 12:09:53 GMT)
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The point being made is that they weren’t permanently installed somewhere.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
ormiston
: The term 'feet' sounds slightly odd
1 hr
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Look at the image is all I can say. However, I have said I prefer ‘freestanding’.
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agree |
philgoddard
: Legs are longer, but I think either would do.
3 hrs
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Thanks, though now we discover they are on feet + casters ;-)
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agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: "Freestanding" was what sprung to mind for me too, casters or not, the way the term is used in the extract posted, it works well. If casters are mentioned later, then of course you'll have the chance to do likewise. ;-)
4 hrs
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Thanks, Nikki. I hope it gets round the issue.
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agree |
Michele Fauble
: Freestanding
8 hrs
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Thanks, Michele
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agree |
writeaway
10 hrs
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Thanks, writeaway :-)
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agree |
Rachel Fell
10 hrs
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Thank you, Rachel
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disagree |
Mpoma
: Sorry I can see no evidence of any panels anywhere. Too much surmising.
5 days
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Sorry you can’t see the image. And anyway, this is not relevant for the question asked.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks very much for your help"
54 mins
stand on legs
Tables and chairs have legs, presumably so do these items.
Feet is a false friend.
Possibly not unlike the banners used at marches and demonstrations, like the one here: https://www.alamy.com/trade-unions-gather-together-to-march-...
Feet is a false friend.
Possibly not unlike the banners used at marches and demonstrations, like the one here: https://www.alamy.com/trade-unions-gather-together-to-march-...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Feet is not a false friend. It is often used in the decorative arts.
2 mins
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Not one of my specialist subject areas, just trying to help out -- will take your word for it.
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neutral |
Tony M
: When you look at them, they are very short, stumpy 'legs', and I think are better referred to as 'feet', just as they might on say a sideboard.
5 days
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58 mins
resting on (their) feet
As suggested initially in my discussion.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
ormiston
: Like horses?!
1 hr
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No, like furniture ... Really? https://www.google.com/search?q="resting on feet" furniture&...
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neutral |
Tony M
: Would be quite wrong if you add 'their'; otherwise, identical to Helen's earlier answer.
5 days
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I suppose you agree with "resting on feet"?
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-1
2 hrs
Are placed on a stand
I think this conveys the idea, and a stand can be moved around.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Except they are not, if you look at the image./I posted a better link in the discussion box, since Nicky seems to have disappeared.
12 mins
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I can't access it!
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neutral |
Ana Vozone
: Please check the link ....
42 mins
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disagree |
Tony M
: Definitely no sign of a 'stand' anywhere here.
5 days
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5 days
the scenery rests on casters
Décors means nothing more nor less than EN scenery. This is consistent with the image, and it is also consistent with the ST: "fait échos aux fêtes royales et spectacles qui se déroulaient"...
Like Conor I am a little dubious about Helen's choice of "feet". She gives no evidence for helf slightly overly self-confident assertion that it is "often used in the decorative arts". Maybe it is, but maybe not in this precise context.
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Note added at 5 days (2020-12-22 17:41:44 GMT)
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PS there might in fact be a case for saying something like "the scenery element rests on casters": it may be preferable if the English word is a countable singular noun, since this is what we see in the tapestry, even if the French uses the plural décors.
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Note added at 5 days (2020-12-22 18:12:37 GMT)
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PPS but then again, the example link to that specific V&A tapestry is slightly distracting. Considering the ST alone, "scenery" is probably fine.
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Note added at 6 days (2020-12-24 10:36:41 GMT) Post-grading
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Actually, after having downloaded the V&G image and zoomed in a lot (it is quite hi-res), I have come to the conclusion that these are not in fact casters/ors, but in fact pointy elements (made of wood presumably). In view of this, it is too much to surmise that the ST is referring to "castors" when it says pieds. OTOH there is no doubt, for all the reasons given in my discussion entries, that this concerns "scenery" or "scenery elements", not screens.
Like Conor I am a little dubious about Helen's choice of "feet". She gives no evidence for helf slightly overly self-confident assertion that it is "often used in the decorative arts". Maybe it is, but maybe not in this precise context.
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Note added at 5 days (2020-12-22 17:41:44 GMT)
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PS there might in fact be a case for saying something like "the scenery element rests on casters": it may be preferable if the English word is a countable singular noun, since this is what we see in the tapestry, even if the French uses the plural décors.
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Note added at 5 days (2020-12-22 18:12:37 GMT)
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PPS but then again, the example link to that specific V&A tapestry is slightly distracting. Considering the ST alone, "scenery" is probably fine.
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Note added at 6 days (2020-12-24 10:36:41 GMT) Post-grading
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Actually, after having downloaded the V&G image and zoomed in a lot (it is quite hi-res), I have come to the conclusion that these are not in fact casters/ors, but in fact pointy elements (made of wood presumably). In view of this, it is too much to surmise that the ST is referring to "castors" when it says pieds. OTOH there is no doubt, for all the reasons given in my discussion entries, that this concerns "scenery" or "scenery elements", not screens.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: Eaxctly, as I said, I think these 'scenic elements' could be referred to collectively as 'scenery'; I think I'd favour 'stand' on castors rather than 'rest', which to me suggests something rather more fortuitous.
50 mins
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Thanks, and your 2 points are spot on: British EN seems to favour "castors" (whoops) and, yes, see what you mean about "stand".
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disagree |
Helen Shiner
: Castors were patented in the 1870s./ Wheels are not castors. This is not trolling; it is specialist knowledge.
1 hr
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Haha, who's trolling now? "Moving large items with wheels has been around since the early existence of ancient civilization. ... in 1876, casters were first patented...". Fortunately I find this sort of lunacy great fun... (see discussion: 1748)
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Discussion
"Petite rouë qui supporte un fardeau, qui le fait rouler. Les canons des vaisseaux sont posez sur des roulettes.
ROULETTE, est aussi une petite couchette qui roule sur des rouës pour la transporter & cacher, quand on veut. Un mary qui couche dans la roulette, tandis que sa femme couche au grand lit, est un grand sot." ( https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/roulette )
Yes, there are many different meanings for roulette, one being an odd wheelchair contraption in which Louis XIV was wheeled about Versailles, presumably when old, fat and gouty.
The main point being, however, that that V&A photo confirms all we need to know: considered in combination with the ST it is abundantly clear that these scenery elements are on attached small wheels or castors (i.e. possibly of a non-swivelling kind), which enable the elements to be shifted quickly (éphémère, mobile) and with much less effort than if you have to lift them, something which spectacular live entertainment (which Louis XIV loved) requires.
The equivalent FR word is, normally, roulette. I have tried looking for the earliest occurrence of that word, but FR doesn't have as many resources on the InterOuèbbe, obviously. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it was Louis XIV's minions who coined it for this precise purpose.
And it is a shame that the ST didn't use that word, since (in my view) it would have made things a lot clearer. Can it be justifiable to translate pieds as "castors"? Given that "(generic) feet" do not "[rappellent le] caractère éphémère et mobile [des décors]" in any sense whatsoever.
Only the Asker can decide!
That structure simply isn't a "large textile" or a "painted panel". You can see the back wall through it (same colour as either side of the scenery structure).
I feel my confidence about this growing to almost the proportions of Helen's, when I point to the fact that "scenery" is also fitting when the text starts talking of "leur caractère éphémère et mobile". Nothing more ephemeral (or mobile for that matter) than stage scenery: "... shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind."
... which, incidentally, also tends to favour the choice of "casters". This mobile scenery is indeed only mobile by virtue of the fact that the things which support it are able to move, i.e. not merely generic "feet".
Conversely, there is in fact no specific reference to exotic animals in the ST, only fêtes and spectacles. The V&A link is useful but not the text we have to try and understand.
BUT ... I still see no sign whatsoever of a "panel". That structure behind the elephant is what it is SAID to be in the ST, to wit décors, EN scenery. Notice that the back wall of the room here appears to be visible through the structure of the scenery. Whereas a "panel" is usually going to be "solid" (although some panels may have some kind of "openwork"). That is not a panel.
Thise is presumbly depicting bits of 'scenery' placed in the real landscape (here, on a terrace, perhaps) to act as an attractive setting to frame their picnic or whatever entertainment was being presented.
Judging by the siez of the chap leading it, that's actually a fairly baby elephant, I'd say!
I can't see any evidence of a "decorative panels" ... where do you get this idea/conviction from? These appear to be tapestries, not panels.
Also your translation appears to gloss over/ignore something in the ST: what are we to make of "jusque dans la composition on peut observer que les décors reposent sur des pieds". This suggests that it is actually something intrinsic to the scene or image depicted, not a physical add-on (to some putative "panel").
As far as I remember, the backdrop is just one of the many possible pieces of scenery used in any production. But as you already said, this isn't the topic of the question!
You do need to enlarge the image to see that it is standing on casters.
This fits in with the "spectacles qui se déroulaient dans les jardins de Versailles"
I'm no expert, but I'm not sure it matters too much whether you use "feet" or "legs", although my instinct would be to opt for "legs" here!